Proz.com Job Board Offers: specifying rates and providing sample texts in job posts
Thread poster: Tara Salman
Tara Salman  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 03:55
French to English
Dec 22, 2009

It would be ideal if more people posting job offers would specify their rates and a text sample to translate. This would make the selection process more effective and waste less time for both translators and potential employers.

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2009-12-22 19:50 GMT]


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ATIL KAYHAN  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 11:55
Member (2007)
Turkish to English
+ ...
Rates in Posts and Sample Translation Dec 23, 2009

I guess they do not want to put their rates in front of the job to be done. In other words, they might want the rates to be a secondary issue after the translation and other stuff. I know this is somewhat a delicate subject for both parties.

As to sample translation, I personally do not enjoy doing them. This is perhaps due to a couple occasions (not through ProZ of course) I had to translate text to find out it was a bogus ad. I would rather like them to rate me by my CV/resume.

Sincerely,
Atil

[Edited at 2009-12-23 05:44 GMT]


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jaymin
Canada
Local time: 03:55
Member (2009)
German to Korean
+ ...
I agree.. Dec 23, 2009

I agree with Tara. It is kind of hassle to negotiate rates which is already added on profile. I also feel wasting time in going through the entrance door at the inital process. Because of the time difference, sometimes two days fly with no communication. In additions, nowadays, I see the fees are getting lower as the market is getting competitive (I guess).

As far as sample text is concerned, it would be quite helpful for translators to get some general idea on what it is going to be. This also takes quite a bit time to figure it out.


JM


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Neil Coffey  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:55
French to English
+ ...
Think generally people do, but... Dec 23, 2009

It's worth remembering that different jobs have different constraints. Sometimes a client has dictated a particular budget, and the job will be advertised accordingly and there may be little room to manoevre. In other cases, there can be more flexibility, and the outsourcer can consider a range of prices and weigh up a given a translator's price/experience tradeoff alongside the amount of editing they think the translation might need based on that translator's experience.

Remember sometimes a sample translation can't be given for confidentiality reasons, though I agree it's a good idea in principle, at least so that the *translator* can see in advance if they're likely to be able to take the job on.

The problem that I see from the outsourcer's point of view is that, beyond ruling out samples with blatant mistakes, it may be that an "error" is just due to lack of context in the small sample rather than because of any incompetence on the part of the translator. In any case, I would personally always consider a test translation as an optional component of a person's candidacy-- I wouldn't be terribly offended if a colleague with 15 years of experience in the field and a good CV chose not to do the test translation. (On the other hand, if I'm choosing between 10 colleagues with only a couple of years of experience and one of them hasn't done the test but the others all have...)


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:55
English to German
+ ...
You are running an independent business... Dec 23, 2009

...providing an expert professional service.

It is kind of hassle to negotiate rates which is already added on profile.

Quoting and negotiating the price of the service you offer is an essential part of running that business. Unless you're selling a commodity that can be sold and discounted by the dozen, that is.

As an outsourcer, unless we have an established relationship, I expect vendors to supply me with a quote, taking into account the job at hand (subject matter, complexity, urgency, etc.) - anyone who refers me to a standard price table will greatly diminish the chances of getting the job.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Susan van den Ende  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:55
English to Dutch
+ ...
Difference between text sample and sample translation! Dec 23, 2009

My job post often include a text sample with a note saying something along the lines of

"this passage is only meant to give you an idea of the text to be translated, it is *not* meant for sample translation"

with confidential stuff either omitted or adapted (e.g. parties XX and YY agreeing on a sum of ZZ dollars).

I agree with Ralf though. I usually don't include a rate proposal. So far I have seen few end clients who approach me saying "I have this text, and I'm willing to pay X EUR for it".


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 08:55
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
They aren't potential employers Dec 23, 2009

Tara Salman wrote:
It would be ideal if more people posting job offers would specify their rates


Their rates? What about MY rates? Do you tell the plumber, the electrician how much you are going to pay them?

and a text sample to translate.


I don't actually want to translate a few dozen words, out of context. I do, however, agree with others that a sample of the text can be really useful.

This would make the selection process more effective and waste less time for both translators and potential employers.


Wait a minute, Tara - we are freelancers here, not employees. Perhaps this is your problem. We are not looking for a salary and a boss.


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Tara Salman  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 03:55
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
next question Dec 23, 2009

Sorry,
I should have rephrased my post as follows:

It MIGHT be MORE USEFUL FOR SOME if THOSE posting job offers COULD specify their rates and require a VERY SHORT text sample to translate. This MIGHT make THINGS EASIER FOR both FREELANCE translators and THOSE OFFERING WORK. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

So how does one go about deleting a post and entire thread on here?


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philgoddard
United States
Member (2009)
German to English
+ ...
I agree with Sheila Dec 23, 2009

And in my experience, when companies do post their rates, they're generally way below what I'm prepared to accept.

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José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 06:55
English to Portuguese
+ ...
It's just a matter of CARING for the job Dec 23, 2009

Some job posters just want to find the lowest rate that can get the job done. They demand translator certification as a matter of routine, and often demand Trados even if the original is handwritten or audio.

Sample texts - just for reference, and not as a test - are good, because they give a clear idea than, for instance:
- medical, but simple (maybe simple for a physician)
- highly technical (but doesn't say if it's electronics or oil rigging)
- marketing (is it ad copy or a market share report?)
... and so on.

However sometimes the job poster doesn't know squat about the source language, and their sample, in English, could read like this:
Printed by Szmlausker & Co. on recycled paper.
If pages are missing, kindly return to whoever gave this to you and request another copy.


The worst job ads on Proz are those where the poster obviously has a faint idea - if any - on what translation is about, the size of the job, the original material to be provided etc. It seems that they posted a job just to get that job posted, not to get it ever done.


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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:55
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
They should understand the source text pretty well. Dec 24, 2009

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

However sometimes the job poster doesn't know squat about the source language, and their sample, in English, could read like this:
Printed by Szmlausker & Co. on recycled paper.
If pages are missing, kindly return to whoever gave this to you and request another copy.


The worst job ads on Proz are those where the poster obviously has a faint idea - if any - on what translation is about, the size of the job, the original material to be provided etc. It seems that they posted a job just to get that job posted, not to get it ever done.



Maybe some posters got a wrong understanding about the field of Sample Text. They thought it was mandatory to put some text there to fill the field. They neither intended for the potential bidders to translate the sample, nor for the latters to get an impression of what the text was about. They just put something there to make it possible to continue to fill out the form on line.

[Edited at 2009-12-24 02:40 GMT]


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Özden Arıkan  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:55
Member
English to Turkish
I would suggest the exact opposite Dec 24, 2009

That job posters should not be allowed to dictate or impose their rates, that is. It would help inexperienced freelancers to better realize what Sheila is talking about above.

As for the sample text to translate, there might be issues of confidentiality on the part of the job poster and it wouldn't be fair to legitimize free test translations by providing a mandatory field like that in the job posting form. Some freelancers simply reject doing free tests.


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