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obligatory response to job applications - not only a matter of courtesy...
Thread poster: Carol Offringa

Carol Offringa
Netherlands
Local time: 03:39
Member (2009)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Feb 26, 2010

Hi all,

After having reacted to job offers several times (sample translations included), it growingly annoys me when outsourcers don't bother to reply. Obviously, I am not the only one......

In my view, all outsourcers who are given the opportunity to post a job offer on Proz.com, should be obliged by the same Proz.com to either send a reply to all applicants who won't get the job or to post a notification on Proz.com that the job has been assigned. Either way, a standard notification will do. This will allow us, job seakers, to plan our work flow more accurately.

In addition to that, applicants who don't get any response from the outsourcer should be allowed to notify this on the Blue Board.

[Edited at 2010-02-26 12:24 GMT]


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DZiW
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
bureaus et companies Feb 26, 2010

Hi AMSTEL,

IMO there're a few variations:
a ) they are just AD 'spammers' for possible future reference (just to see how many volunteers may work for $0.xx);
b ) your email box blocks mass 'spam-like' replies (quite rare, but *it happens);
c ) they are NOT interested or impressed...

Anyway, it really shows the level of the possible employer competency (God save!).
If the prospective 'customer' have not bothered to read my pairs and rates asking me the public data then I feel for such employers.

May be it's some coincidence, but most small and medium agencies do have at least some auto-reply confirmations. Yet many bigger companies don't bother much. No BB would help IMO.

Cheers

[Edited at 2010-02-26 12:54 GMT]


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Tomas Forro  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 03:39
Member (2008)
English to Slovak
+ ...
This is the way it works Feb 26, 2010

AMSTEL TRANSLATIONS wrote:

In my view, all outsourcers who are given the opportunity to post a job offer on Proz.com, should be obliged by the same Proz.com to either send a reply to all applicants who won't get the job or to post a notification on Proz.com that the job has been assigned. Either way, a standard notification will do. This will allow us, job seakers, to plan our work flow more accurately.

In addition to that, applicants who don't get any response from the outsourcer should be allowed to notify this on the Blue Board.

[Edited at 2010-02-26 12:24 GMT]


Hi,
I would be careful with this. From my experience, many people who reply to the job offer write totally irrelevant information despite the clearly stated requirements by outsourcer.

Another thing is that your job post may return 150+ replies per language and it takes ages to reply to all of them.

And why should they bother, after all? If somebody is interested in your services, they will certainly let you know.
If nobody answers, you can take it for granted that you were rejected. You can plan your work as usual. If they will write you after all, you can still say "sorry, but it's too late. I already found other project..."


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Stanislaw Czech, MCIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:39
Member (2006)
English to Polish
+ ...
I agree Feb 26, 2010

This problem would be partially solved if all applicants would receive email notification when the job they applied for is closed (just as in case of Kudoz questions).

Cheers
Stanislaw


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Edward Vreeburg  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 03:39
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Would be nice Feb 26, 2010

.. but there is an option to Decline the offer (if send through Proz). (I did receive some of those)... But if you don't hear from them, it's because you did not get the job... For Dutch only few people react (what 10-20?) but for other languages there might be 50 -100... With tight deadlines and all, the agencies simply have no time to notify everybody I guess...
(well, if you apply for a inhouse position, you don't always hear from the company either... it's a sign of the times)...
Reporting this on the blueboard? I guess agencies can just include a line - don't contact us, we'll contact you when we need you...

My 2cts
Ed


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Tomas Forro  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 03:39
Member (2008)
English to Slovak
+ ...
Sure Feb 26, 2010

Edward Vreeburg wrote:

Reporting this on the blueboard? I guess agencies can just include a line - don't contact us, we'll contact you when we need you...

My 2cts
Ed


Exactly, that's what I usually write when outsourcing:

We require xy linguistic skills
Please only quote with xy information
Only selected applicants will be contacted due to the big number of offers.

...And what do I usually get? 100 or more offers, sometimes with full, 5-page-long cvs pasted into the quote, 80% of them totally irrelevant to the required job in terms of experience and provided information.
So what should I answer them? "Sorry, but first read the job, then think and only click the Submit Quote if you are sure what you are doing"?
Or should I make two groups, the first to be ignored because they are just spamming and second to be rejected with a letter?

It is obvious that it doesn't make a sense. We just have to get away with the fact that whether we quote on proz, or try to get the job on the street, we may waste a lot of energy without even hearing the flat "No, thanks".


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 04:39
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
It could be done Feb 26, 2010

For instance to day I received one offer and responded to the email-address on the proz.com page. I got an automatic copy of my message. So the message went through the system at proz.com. It would be easy to collect all email addresses of the applicants, so the outsourcer would have to send his declining answer to all in one step. It only needs a little programming.

Hope this will be implemented.
Regards
Heinrich


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Iza Szczypka  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 03:39
English to Polish
+ ...
"Only selected applicants will be contacted" Feb 26, 2010

I feel satisfied whenever I see that line.
However, I think life would be still easier for both parties if some deadline was added to that.
Something to the tune of:
"If we don't contact you within 24 (or 48, or...) hours after the job has been closed, please consider your offer rejected."
I would know exactly when my conditional commitment expires, and the outsourcer wouldn't have to deal with any enquiries of the "what's going on, please?" type. Not that I am sending any such, but I suppose many people do.


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Ledja  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:39
Member (2008)
English to Albanian
+ ...
I don't mind Feb 26, 2010

I agree that individual responses to each quote would be time-consuming and I have personally never given it a second thought when not contacted with a reply. (The only time when I was indeed given the "decline" was when I put my pricing per word as 7 GBP, when I really meant 7 pence - I can imagine the shock on the other side ).

However, having accepted the "no expectations on replies", I have to say that that's put me quite off on preparing really detailed and elaborate quotes. Does the job poster really want to go through all of that (for tens or even hundreds of translators) in order to shortlist? I usually put the most relevant details of my work experience, either in short paragraphs or bullet points, and kindly put an end note about the rest of the full details being available on my CV and proz profile. Does that come out as a lazy attempt to stand out with my quote? Maybe. But, if the job poster can get e quick look and find me suitable for short-listing, then I don't mind pouring out my writing skills and replying by giving them the full account.

Now, what I find annoying is (it's only happened once so far, but I am still gutted) that a job poster would contact you back with a personal details sheet to fill in and a 300-word test translation, and you never hear from them again! I wrote an email to request some feedback on how did the evaluation come out and... total silence. I doubt I've been tricked into providing a free translation (but never say never ). Does this not call for a BB negative rating though, despite me not having actually worked for the company?

Ledja

[Edited at 2010-02-26 16:00 GMT]


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Carol Offringa
Netherlands
Local time: 03:39
Member (2009)
English to Dutch
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
as I said: a standard notification will do ..... Feb 26, 2010

The many digital possibilities of the Proz.com tell me that it should be possible for the outsourcers to either send a (standard) notification to all rejected applicants in one go or add a message to their job offer on Proz.com saying the job is no longer available ( I prefer the former- more direct and less impersonal - solution).

Clearly, asking for an explanation for the rejection and/or an evaluation of your sample translation is not an option, since applications can be numerous indeed. But a simple reply, be it just a standard phrase, would do the job for me.

And why the agencies should bother? Maybe the translator who they don't bother to notify now, might be still a good candidate for another job in the future when your cadidate of the moment happens to be not available...

And not all translators are starving for assignements, you know....

[Edited at 2010-02-26 15:04 GMT]

[Edited at 2010-02-26 15:15 GMT]


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Neil Coffey  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:39
French to English
+ ...
From outsourcer's point of view... Feb 26, 2010

AMSTEL TRANSLATIONS wrote:
In my view, all outsourcers who are given the opportunity to post a job offer on Proz.com, should be obliged by the same Proz.com to either send a reply to all applicants who won't get the job or to post a notification on Proz.com that the job has been assigned. Either way, a standard notification will do. This will allow us, job seakers, to plan our work flow more accurately.


I agree that a job should be closed once it's assigned.

On the other hand, the notion of sending replies to all applicants just isn't practical in my opinion. I'd personally be happy discussing briefly with a serious candidate reasons that they were turned down, but at a later stage not while I'm in the middle of assigning work. (On the other hand, for the 20 candidates asking for double the budget, who are not native speakers in the target language and who sent a stock reply with an empty profile, I wouldn't want to spend tooooo mcuh time on this...)

As far as planning your workflow is concerned, if you get another offer that means you need an immediate answer from the job poster, I think under those circumstances it would be reasonable to contact the poster and ask them about the status of your application.


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David Earl  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:39
Member (2007)
German to English
Automated Replies, No Thanks Feb 26, 2010

Frankly, my automatic assumption is that only selected candidate(s) will be contacted. If the agency can take the time to respond with reasons why they declined my offer (so that perhaps I can respond better), that would be a nice professional courtesy, but it's not necessary.

Personally, I find automated responses to be more annoying than the lack of response. They're a waste of time, bandwidth and programmers' time from my point of view, but then I've gotten enough of them.

[Edited at 2010-02-26 17:13 GMT]


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Ildiko Santana  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:39
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...

MODERATOR
competency and respect Feb 26, 2010

DZiW wrote:
it really shows the level of the possible employer competency (God save!).


Indeed! It is a very clear indication how said outsourcer / project manager is expected to treat you in the future, assuming you ever do any business with them. That is exactly why I decided a few weeks ago to start a log (I posted about this in another thread) and now I have a 'blacklist' of unresponsive outsources that I can refer to *before* I would bid on a job. Whoever is on the list will not hear from me, because I do not wish to work for anyone who has no time/courtesy/respect/professional manners for their service providers, period. Let us remember, we are talking about real human beings not robots. When we don't hear back from the job poster, a notification system that lets us know when a job has been closed would only serve us with proof of what we already know, but at the same time it will quite possibly encourage already lazy outsourcers to not even bother with a response and just ignore our bid without acknowledging it.

Cheers,
Ildiko


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Satto (Roberto)  Identity Verified
Colombia
Local time: 21:39
Member (2007)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Goes both ways Feb 26, 2010

AMSTEL TRANSLATIONS wrote:

Hi all,

After having reacted to job offers several times (sample translations included), it growingly annoys me when outsourcers don't bother to reply. Obviously, I am not the only one......

In my view, all outsourcers who are given the opportunity to post a job offer on Proz.com, should be obliged by the same Proz.com to either send a reply to all applicants who won't get the job or to post a notification on Proz.com that the job has been assigned. Either way, a standard notification will do. This will allow us, job seakers, to plan our work flow more accurately.

In addition to that, applicants who don't get any response from the outsourcer should be allowed to notify this on the Blue Board.

[Edited at 2010-02-26 12:24 GMT]


So I ask for a quote in dollars, I get 80% quote in Euros; I ask for only freelancers, I get 50 emails from agencies; I ask "please no CV's", I get 40 emails with CV's and a long list irrelevant material.. so I ask why do I have reply to people that just ignore what I ask for?
And this is just the tip of the iceberg... then get a week of translation spammers (trados, wordfast), endless emails from agencies offering languages I never even requested, calls, unrelated info, etc. Try posting a job and see what you get.

If you're asking for a negative vote on the BB for the agency I'd also ask for a negative vote to translators that cannot read or follow instructions.


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Tomas Forro  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 03:39
Member (2008)
English to Slovak
+ ...
That's my words! Feb 26, 2010

Satto (Roberto) wrote:

So I ask for a quote in dollars, I get 80% quote in Euros; I ask for only freelancers, I get 50 emails from agencies; I ask "please no CV's", I get 40 emails with CV's and a long list irrelevant material.. so I ask why do I have reply to people that just ignore what I ask for? ...

If you're asking for a negative vote on the BB for the agency I'd also ask for a negative vote to translators that cannot read or follow instructions.


You're my man Roberto. This is exactly my point.
Obviously guys, you can make your blacklists and other childish, time-wasting things out of the injured pride.
But I, as an outsourcer, just don't have a time to reply to all quotes and don't even want to - either reply to spammers or divide the rejected ones into those who will be replied and those who won't.
I, as a translator, don't bother to wait for one. I send my offer, and do my business. Should they reply, perfect. If not, that's also perfect. We are on the equal terms, right?!
Furthermore, I'm getting some offers directly without biding. If I don't have time or don't find the offer interesting enough, I don't bother answering either.

There is no room for any pretentious expectations from any side in this business.


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