Is it fair for member-only jobs to be visible to non-paying members?
Thread poster: xxxnmfurla
xxxnmfurla
Local time: 18:42
Italian to English
Jun 25, 2010

Perhaps I've missed some rule, but yesterday I replied to a job which was not listed as restricted to members only and posted on 23 June. Shortly after pressing the "send" button to email the outsourcer through this site the same job was posted yet again, but this time with Members only restriction. I observed with interest that both listings jobs were marked as "CLOSED".
With bewilderment I sent a request to Support and received a reply which read "I need more information". When I clicked on the link in the email there was no form, etc. to be seen?!
Having read some posts on the forums I have come to the conclusion that unless a registered user pays for a membership, ostensibly at the outset, his/her chances of getting a job through the site are slim at best?!
This has lead me to question the fairness of allowing jobs to be visible to non-registered users but not allowing them to get in touch with the outsourcer through the site. Interestingly, the job posting contained an email address which those interested could contact so it wasn't really necessary for me to send an email through the site. It seems to me that this apparent "anomaly" is a form manipulation.
It is important for me to emphasise that I'm not suggesting that paying members should not have certain "privileges" compared to non-members. Indeed, every individual, professional or otherwise, expect to get something of real value in exchange for pay a price in the form of money. I, perchance unlike many freelance translators, need to try out services and products before spending my limited financial resources. To cite an example, after many years of doing translations the "old-fashioned way", i.e. without TM software, just recently I downloaded trial versions of different software in order to familiarise myself with this technology. My decision was based on information contained and comments posted on this website, as well as on materials and information obtained through translation magazines and ITI. That said, although I recognise there are some benefits to registering as a user of a site dedicated to the translation profession - i.e. a forum for sharing ideas, experience and information - establishing barriers to non-registered in respect of potential jobs advertised as open to all is a real turn off.

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2010-06-25 12:24 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Neil Coffey  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:42
French to English
+ ...
Logic... Jun 25, 2010

Mfurla wrote:
This has lead me to question the fairness of allowing jobs to be visible to non-registered users but not allowing them to get in touch with the outsourcer through the site.


But look at it another way -- before coughing up money, you want to have a rough idea of the kind of jobs you'll be able to quote on, don't you, to assess whether it's worth paying?


Having read some posts on the forums I have come to the conclusion that unless a registered user pays for a membership, ostensibly at the outset, his/her chances of getting a job through the site are slim at best?!


Well, you're only going to be able to bid on jobs where the poster has the luxury of waiting 12 hours before assigning the work. That basically means jobs where the timescale isn't tight. But on the other hand, maybe you're not that fussed about jobs where the timescale is tight?

Apart from the timescale, I don't think there's much difference from the poster's point of view. The only thing I can think of is that they might choose to make only members eligible just as an arbitrary way of bringing the number of candidates down.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Paul Dixon  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 15:42
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Really unfair Jun 25, 2010

The job system at ProZ is really unfair to non-paying members. Worse, you can't quote for a job without paying, whether through membership or out of the wallet. What ProZ should do is to allow non-paying users to quote for jobs and pay with browniz and/or kudoz points, like it was in the past.

However, what really makes me angry is when a job poster says "non-members may only quote after xx hours" - then closes the job without giving non-payers even a chance to quote!

However, even for members (as I was for a while, having won a membership in a conference draw) jobs are extremely rare and chances of getting them less than the possibility of the World Cup being held in an odd-numbered year.


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Krzysztof Kajetanowicz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 18:42
English to Polish
+ ...
unfair? Jun 26, 2010

Don't get it. It's just a different service level. Might as well call KudoZ unfair because without paying for membership you can only ask 5 questions a day.

However, what really makes me angry is when a job poster says "non-members may only quote after xx hours" - then closes the job without giving non-payers even a chance to quote!


Apparently the poster was in a hurry. But by posting a member-only job the poster had shot themselves in the foot in the first place. If they want to restrict the number of bidders based on a random criterion, so be it.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

PCovs
Denmark
Local time: 18:42
Member (2003)
English to Danish
+ ...
Client can close at any time he/she choses Jun 26, 2010

This has nothing to do with ProZ, I believe, and I too have experienced that a job posting was closed shortly after it was posted. That's life. Nothing to get your nickers in a twist over.

The freelance business is about being on the lookout all the time, and if you happen to miss a job posting, well someone else was just faster than you. Many clients take the first qualified quote they get, obviously. Why should they wait for others to chip in if they already found one to match their needs? I don't get it.

On this site, as well as on other sites, the clients can chose to restrict job offers to paying members only. This is their prorogative. This means that non-paying members most of the time lose out on an oportunity to bid on this job, yes.
But as a non-paying member your quote would appear after all other quotes anyway. This is one of the privileges you get from paying for your membership. If this does not suit you, perhaps another translator's site with open quotations would be better suited for you?

Another option would be to set up your own website and pay (yes) to have your keywords come up in the front line on e.g. Google etc.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 18:42
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Mfurla Jun 26, 2010

Mfurla wrote:
Perhaps I've missed some rule, but yesterday I replied to a job which was not listed as restricted to members only and posted on 23 June. Shortly after pressing the "send" button to email the outsourcer through this site the same job was posted yet again, but this time with Members only restriction. I observed with interest that both listings jobs were marked as "CLOSED".


I've never experienced this, but if it had happened to me, I would have suspected that it was a jobs poster who is new to jobs posting and who had decided to close a job shortly after posting it, for whatever reason (perhaps he was unhappy with something that occurred to him only after he posted the job).

With bewilderment I sent a request to Support and received a reply which read "I need more information".


That is a horrible reply! From "support" to boot! Although... what information did you include in your request? Did you include the URLs of both jobs that you were referring to?

Having read some posts on the forums I have come to the conclusion that unless a registered user pays for a membership, ostensibly at the outset, his/her chances of getting a job through the site are slim at best?!


It depends on your language combination. Some combinations are saturated.

This has lead me to question the fairness of allowing jobs to be visible to non-registered users but not allowing them to get in touch with the outsourcer through the site.


It's a teaser. It helps show the user what he's missing because he's not paying. I have no objection to such teasers, but I do dislike it if the e-mail I get with the notification fails to tell me that I don't qualify for the job before I click the link.

Interestingly, the job posting contained an email address which those interested could contact so it wasn't really necessary for me to send an email through the site.


Yes, I found this as well. It would seem that ProZ.com has no objection if jobs posters post their contact details in the jobs post, and ProZ.com does not seem to require jobs posters to make use of ProZ.com's contact systems if they don't want to.

Although I recognise there are some benefits to registering as a user of a site dedicated to the translation profession - i.e. a forum for sharing ideas, experience and information - establishing barriers to non-registered in respect of potential jobs advertised as open to all is a real turn off.


I agree. If the jobs post is restricted, it should say so clearly. To do otherwise is misleading.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 18:42
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@PaulD Jun 26, 2010

Paul Dixon wrote:
The job system at ProZ is really unfair to non-paying members. Worse, you can't quote for a job without paying, whether through membership or out of the wallet. What ProZ should do is to allow non-paying users to quote for jobs and pay with browniz and/or kudoz points, like it was in the past.


Well, not expecting non-paying members to pay would be unfair to paying members, won't it?

I do think that the BrowniZ system was a good one, and that site users could build up BrowniZ points and then be rewarded for their hard work in some tangible way. But... the BrowniZ days are over, and it won't come back.

However, what really makes me angry is when a job poster says "non-members may only quote after xx hours" - then closes the job without giving non-payers even a chance to quote!


Well, I can understand why that would happen. The ProZ.com quoting system is not a tender system, in which the client is obliged to wait for a cut-off date before deciding who gets the job. The client can freely take the very first available translator, without having to wait "in fairness" for other translators to quote. The purpose of the quoting deadline is not to provide a measure of fairness to slow quoting translators, but simply to indicate to the ProZ.com system when it should automatically close the job is the client hasn't closed it himself.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

DZiW
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
lured bate Jun 26, 2010

Do you remember that tale about a donkey and a carrot? That's it.

Although I see nothing wrong with it: you can look but cannot touch. Should you like to get one then buy membership and enjoy. It's easy.

Or just unsubscribe and ignore it. I just quit earning KudoZ & BrowniZ when aggressive colleagues rushed into a new members-only brave world. And as far as my salary is pretty high I don't care much about some 'improper' ads.

Stay cool. Cheers)

[Edited at 2010-06-26 12:37 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 
xxxnmfurla
Local time: 18:42
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Job poster ultimate decision-maker Jun 27, 2010

Many thanks for your replies and comments. I have read with interest the different points of view and experiences. Some believe the job posting system as regards non-members is perfectly acceptable and, indeed, as offering a different service level whereas others regard it as unfair.
Whilst I fully appreciate that the job poster ultimately has the power to decide whether or not to close a job and the timing of such, I cannot help but view with a certain degree of suspicion an advertisement posted twice within a 24-hour period. I wonder whether there really is a job or it is just a "fishing expedition".
To DZiW, I'll definitely try to stay cool.


Direct link Reply with quote
 


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Is it fair for member-only jobs to be visible to non-paying members?

Advanced search






Wordfast Pro
Translation Memory Software for Any Platform

Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users! Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value

More info »
CafeTran Espresso
You've never met a CAT tool this clever!

Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer. Accept jobs from clients who use SDL Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools. Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search