Should job posts for "all languages" be allowed?
Thread poster: José Henrique Lamensdorf

José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 15:54
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
Jun 3, 2011

This happens every day at the pit-bottom Proz copycat's site. Okay, that's their strength - if it's any at all - however a while ago they had to set a minimum posted rate of EUR 4¢/word across the board, possibly to avoid running out of disk space. I don't think this is Proz-ductive.

It happens now and then, however today I received a job post on Proz titled Translators and Editors, Ur
... See more
This happens every day at the pit-bottom Proz copycat's site. Okay, that's their strength - if it's any at all - however a while ago they had to set a minimum posted rate of EUR 4¢/word across the board, possibly to avoid running out of disk space. I don't think this is Proz-ductive.

It happens now and then, however today I received a job post on Proz titled Translators and Editors, Urgent need for ALL languages. I wonder what'is the point here. I cannot imagine anyone on this planet suddenly having urgent jobs involving all possible languages. At best, they are fishing for translators with a very large net.

For such extensive searches, Proz has its profiles database where users can specify their needs and contact possible translators directly.

As my view might be biased, I wonder what my colleagues here would think of Proz implementing a policy whereby Jobs Moderators should veto any job posts that were obviously typical of merely fishing for translators with a large net, and not involving any specific job whatsoever.
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Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 14:54
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
In total agreement with Jose Jun 3, 2011

If all these agencies want to do (as seems clearly the case) is "expand their database," then they should say so....

[Edited at 2011-06-03 19:16 GMT]


 

José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 15:54
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
In memoriam
Expansion should have a direction Jun 3, 2011

Clarifying my point, if an agency has a growing demand for, say, Urdu to Swahili translators, Proz offers much better tools to search for them than posting a job to ALL translators. I cannot believe an agency having a sudden demand for ALL languages.

Jobs should be jobs, i.e. specific. The translators database on Proz is always easily reachable.

[Edited at 2011-06-03 19:26 GMT]


 

Roberto Lipani  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:54
Italian to English
+ ...
"comprehensive" job postings... Jun 3, 2011

Hello José Enrique and Robert,
I am happy to read this post. I did notice in these days some job postings searching for many translators in many (when not all) language combinations.
I think I understand José Enrique point of view on this subject (and Robert's as a consequence). But which is the point exactly? I mean: when an agency or a customer requires a translator for a specific job, the agency may post the job giving instructions for quoting.
But as José Enrique has
... See more
Hello José Enrique and Robert,
I am happy to read this post. I did notice in these days some job postings searching for many translators in many (when not all) language combinations.
I think I understand José Enrique point of view on this subject (and Robert's as a consequence). But which is the point exactly? I mean: when an agency or a customer requires a translator for a specific job, the agency may post the job giving instructions for quoting.
But as José Enrique has pointed out, recently we have seen "comprehensive job postings" as if the unique aim was to increase the number of translators cooperating with a single agency (e.g. for potential jobs).
What I really don't understand is: what would be the utility of such policy for an Agency?
I appreciate any explanation on the subject

Hope you both are doing ok. Have a nice evening

Regards

Roberto
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Ricardo Gouveia  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:54
English to Portuguese
+ ...
It's good to know the market is not so bad Jun 3, 2011

It is actually good that many translators with different languages have some chance, so it is not that bad and we should not criticize such specific, innovative and well-detailed projects. I hope Old English, Phoenician and Klingon specialists make the best out of this opportunity.

And since Internet writing is so emotion-less, please note the post above is pure sarcasm of my own.


 

José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 15:54
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
In memoriam
The reasons Jun 3, 2011

Roberto Lipani wrote:
But as José Enrique has pointed out, recently we have seen "comprehensive job postings" as if the unique aim was to increase the number of translators cooperating with a single agency (e.g. for potential jobs).
What I really don't understand is: what would be the utility of such policy for an Agency?
I appreciate any explanation on the subject


Ciao, Roberto,

The "good" explanation is that an agency is starting out, can't get any jobs, so they decide to at least have translators. Silly management? Of course! Yet there is another translation jobs "portal" - whose name I'm not allowed to post here - where most of the ads are of the aforementioned kind. How do these agencies come to be? Some people think to themselves, "Well I can't find a job, so I'm gonna earn money from outsourcing translations; buy them cheap, and add as much of a hefty markup as I can. All I have to do is to find translators, set up a ritzy web site to attract translation jobs, and then push files back and forth."

The "bad" explanation is that such agencies will demand each applicant to provide, as references, contact information for three of their recent and major clients. Then they'll spam these clients with messages to the tune of "Whatever this jerk does for you, we can do it cheaper, better, and faster!

Bottom line is that any agency fishing translators in ANY language with a net obviously does not have one single translation job going to care about. So what's the point for translators to apply there? Since Proz has Jobs Moderators, my suggestion here is to have them instructed to veto any such blanket job offers. It will add prestige to Proz as a whole - no "fishermen" posting translation jobs here.


 

Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:54
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
In memoriam
These ads may or may not be quite respectable. Jun 3, 2011

I don't see why a new agency, or an agency wishing to expand into other languages, should not post such an ad on ProZ. Many may be of the dubious kind described, but there is no need to assume they all are. A translator might find a good agency to work for from an ad of this kind.
But regarding the first competitor site mentioned by José, I have noticed that some agencies or would-be agencies fill in the required line "We will pay 0.04 Euros per word"
but elsewhere in the same ad
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I don't see why a new agency, or an agency wishing to expand into other languages, should not post such an ad on ProZ. Many may be of the dubious kind described, but there is no need to assume they all are. A translator might find a good agency to work for from an ad of this kind.
But regarding the first competitor site mentioned by José, I have noticed that some agencies or would-be agencies fill in the required line "We will pay 0.04 Euros per word"
but elsewhere in the same ad will say the will only pay USD0.03 per word or some such much lower figure. So the policy does not seem to be working.
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Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 19:54
Member (2010)
French to English
+ ...
Absolutely agree with your point José Jun 4, 2011

There seems to be an awful lot of "FISHING" going on and at 3/4cent a word as well. Ok, if you're living in some areas, 4 cents might seem a lot, but really I don't bother going near anything with that sort of price tag! Yes, some agencies are starting out and need to build databases but better to be honest about it rather than promising non-existant jobs.

 
It's awful to see them, and I ignore them. Jun 4, 2011

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

Clarifying my point, if an agency has a growing demand for, say, Urdu to Swahili translators, Proz offers much better tools to search for them than posting a job to ALL translators. I cannot believe an agency having a sudden demand for ALL languages.

Jobs should be jobs, i.e. specific. The translators database on Proz is always easily reachable.

[Edited at 2011-06-03 19:26 GMT]


I completely agree with Jose. The search directory is open for everyone, and anyone can access it and find a suitable service provider in the language field one needs.

My policy against these so called fishers is that I don't apply or quote to their job offers. If I understand correctly, these agencies are posting under the category of "Potential Jobs". Sometimes, I get direct contacts from these agencies thru Proz's mailing system, but I rarely answer them, or even if I do, I tell them "If this job materializes, just let me know. I'll see what I can do then".

Personally, applying for potential jobs, especially the kinds which Jose mentions in this thread is a total waste of time.


 

Roberto Lipani  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:54
Italian to English
+ ...
Thank you Jun 4, 2011

Hello José Enrique,
thank you for the explanation. I think I got the point now: if an agency is looking for new translators for incoming or potential projects, it is good that they post "comprehensive job posting" to start the business. But they could also use the tools available here at Proz to search translators whose profile matches the need for a real job.
Well, things are clearer now, and I agree with your concern on the subject.

Thanks again for the explanation
... See more
Hello José Enrique,
thank you for the explanation. I think I got the point now: if an agency is looking for new translators for incoming or potential projects, it is good that they post "comprehensive job posting" to start the business. But they could also use the tools available here at Proz to search translators whose profile matches the need for a real job.
Well, things are clearer now, and I agree with your concern on the subject.

Thanks again for the explanation. Have a nice weekend

Roberto
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writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
Cattle calls Jun 4, 2011

There have always been 'cattle call' job ads posted on Proz. Just ignore them if you find them objectionable. There is no obligation to apply/bid.

 

Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:54
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
In memoriam
Illustrating failure of competitor website's minimum rate policy. Jun 5, 2011

An extreme example appeared there today saying they'll pey EUR0.10 per word but actually offering a very much lower rate.


[Edited at 2011-06-06 14:26 GMT]


 


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