"We are not paying for those!" (duplicate words)
Thread poster: Ursula Peter-Czichi

Ursula Peter-Czichi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:44
German to English
+ ...
Apr 6, 2004

Here is an excerpt from one of the recent job offers:


Job type: Translation
Languages: English>German

Job description:

Excel. 1,900 words (3,700 in all, but there are lots of repetitions, and we are not paying for those).


I was proud to be a Proz member. So far, there have not been any takers.

What is this? Translators are now only paid for words, which have to be researched for hours? It should be clear to outsourcers that most words in a translation are "common" in nature. Then, there are the ones that people fight over in the KudoZ section.

Well, I know I can't say anything unfriendly about the tone of this "offer". So, I will not,
I will not,
I will not, ...
oh, what the h..l, it stinks!

I wonder what everyone else thinks,

Ursula


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Pee Eff
Germany
Local time: 21:44
English to German
+ ...
Yes, it stinks! Apr 6, 2004

Hi Ursula

of course it stinks, but why bother?? It's no use! I saw this offer too and thought: "if I were told that by one of my clients, I'd tell him that I don't translate the words I'm not being paid for". So those repeated words would stay right where they are.

But really, it's no use spending your energy in getting angry over this. Most probably you (and I) wouldn't want to work for those people anyway...

Have a pleasant day!
Patrick


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Jabberwock  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 21:44
Member (2004)
English to Polish
Happens... Apr 6, 2004

I suppose it could be an inaccurate choice of words in the offer. Probably what they meant is that they will not pay for the _segments_ that are repeated.

It is a lamentable practice, but not that uncommon. Usually the 100% are paid for, but it\'s only a fraction of the regular price.

All those CAT tools are cool, until the customers start to use them. I guess that use of CAT tools by non-translating entities should be prohibited by law...


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Dipl.-Kfm. Bernhard Aicher MBA  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:44
Member
English to German
+ ...
That's immoral Apr 6, 2004



[Edited at 2004-04-06 01:07]


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
A beginners fault Apr 6, 2004

Some beginners think that repetitions won't take time at all, and they are wrong.
(And some people might stay beginners for their whole life.)

But where is the problem? You can simply take it into account when you calculate your bid. (Just don't forget to keep it unbinding until you will have seen the files.)

On the other hand I must admit I did not even bid for that job,
because my nose did not agree either.

[Edited at 2004-04-06 01:28]


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lien
Netherlands
Local time: 21:44
English to French
+ ...
Easy Apr 6, 2004

Ursula Peter-Czichi wrote:


Excel. 1,900 words (3,700 in all, but there are lots of repetitions, and we are not paying for those).



You say they send you only the words to translate and that you let them to put the words in a good order with the ones they have.

You will see more tricks like that, like not wanting to pay for names, or for numbers or for spaces.


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Dennis Kim
Korean to English
+ ...
words or segments? Apr 6, 2004

>>What is this? Translators are now only paid for words, which have to be researched for hours? It should be clear to outsourcers that most words in a translation are "common" in nature. Then, there are the ones that people fight over in the KudoZ section.

Ursula sounds as if s/he misundertood the repetition as the repetitive words (such as "do", "not", etc.)as compared to repetitive segments (sentences). I hope this is not the case.

I am also against freerepetitions but I agree with Harry in that such can be reflected in the bidding rates.

Dennis


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Ursula Peter-Czichi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:44
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Keep it unbinding until you see ALL the files. Apr 6, 2004

Harry_B wrote:
...
(Just don't forget to keep it unbinding until you will have seen the files.)
...
[Edited at 2004-04-06 01:26]


I agree to all. Once I made the mistake and agreed on a job having seen only 2 "example" files.

The rest of the files arrived as pdf files. Only a few words/page needed to be translated, cut out, pasted back into the page and faxed to the agency: 3 days of work, 2 nights to go with it - all for $200! Never again will that happen to me again!

Excel plus concern about repetitions spells trouble. So does working for amateurs.

Well there is always hope for change,

Ursula


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 16:44
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Right forum Apr 6, 2004

Hi

I'm moving this topic to the Jobs forum.

Claudia


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Ursula Peter-Czichi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:44
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The basic problem with Trados reductions Apr 6, 2004

netnis wrote:

Ursula sounds as if s/he misundertood the repetition as the repetitive words (such as "do", "not", etc.)as compared to repetitive segments (sentences). I hope this is not the case.

I am also against freerepetitions but I agree with Harry in that such can be reflected in the bidding rates.

Dennis


for repeated segments is that in the process of translation repeated words and repeated segments require almost the same effort, unless the context requires a change within a segment.

I frequently change the structure of a paragraph to adjust for the language character. Of course, segment counters would not know about such small details.

Germans for example, are much less tolerant to the repetition of segments than Americans are. In general, Germans interpret the use of repetitive sequences as a lack of linguistic qualification.

Have you ever read MS software documentation or manuals? (I rest my case.)

The Trados reductions are an artificial way to reduce translator rates.

Please note: I do not accept those reductions and therefore do not bid on this type of job. What made this "job offer" stand out was the tone that makes the music.

Ursula

[Edited at 2004-04-06 02:33]


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Serkan Doğan  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 22:44
Turkish to English
+ ...
It Always Stinks! Apr 6, 2004

That is what most of wide-awake translation agencies look for; unaware translators at all..

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Özden Arıkan  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:44
Member
English to Turkish
Sometimes I wonder Apr 6, 2004

if the repeated the's, a/n's, and's and the like won't be counted in the invoice This is not my area of experience exactly, but I think what lien suggests is the best thing to do, and then why not have a puzzlereading process in between translating and proofreading

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