In support of indicating project budgets up front
Thread poster: Robert Forstag
Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:13
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Sep 20, 2013

In my view, it makes all the sense in the world for postings that involve highly limited budgets to include this information, so that translators who refuse working for peanuts don't waste time and energy bidding on such jobs.

Especially when things get to the point that $0.04/word is offered for a rush job, there truly is no point in concealing such vital information.


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 20:13
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Posters can do that if they wish Sep 20, 2013

I've never posted a job so I don't know what posters fill in, but there's a blue box that we see that can have budget information in. However, only members can choose to see it or hide it; it's hidden from registered users.

The change was made for a very good reason: all those bottom-feeding jobs displayed to everyone in the world was giving ProZ.com a bad name and leading everyone to think that such low rates were 'normal'. Please let's not go back to that state of affairs.


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Natalia Mackevich  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:13
Member (2009)
English to Russian
+ ...
The situation did not change, it's just hidden. Sep 20, 2013

Some users reply to low-budget clients in an attempt to educate them, but it brings no visible results, since higher bids are declined or ignored. The point is that the Proz system won't improve the clients until the latter decide it's time to change. Well, no problems for me and my business, as there are thousands other customers out there.

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Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 21:13
English to Polish
+ ...
I agree Oct 1, 2013

Robert Forstag wrote:

In my view, it makes all the sense in the world for postings that involve highly limited budgets to include this information, so that translators who refuse working for peanuts don't waste time and energy bidding on such jobs.

Especially when things get to the point that $0.04/word is offered for a rush job, there truly is no point in concealing such vital information.


In other words, there shouldn't really be an option to stay silent on the subject, while offering less in e-mails later than what was said in the job ad should incur some administrative sanctions for circumventing the system.


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Enrique
Local time: 16:13
SITE STAFF
Definitions taken in 2010 Oct 1, 2013

You should have a look at the discussions and actions that took place in 2010.

Regards,
Enrique


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Miguel Carmona  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:13
English to Spanish
Hiding the problem will not resolve it Oct 1, 2013

Natalia Mackevich wrote:

The situation did not change, it's just hidden

Some users reply to low-budget clients in an attempt to educate them, but it brings no visible results, since higher bids are declined or ignored. The point is that the Proz system won't improve the clients until the latter decide it's time to change. Well, no problems for me and my business, as there are thousands other customers out there.


I agree with you that hiding the problem will not resolve it.

Regarding the existence of thousands of clients out there, true, but the situation is not as free of danger as it might seem, since more and more cheap agencies are learning about ProZ and similar sites, where they can find low bidders they cannot find anywhere else for their low budget jobs.

Not only that, cheap agencies in turn are little by little affecting the entire industry since they compete on low price for jobs from end clients.

Nowadays it is not unheard of to find agencies that charge end clients less than what long-time established translators themselves charge end clients. A very contradictory situation born out of the lack of business sense, knowledge, experience, vision and professionalism on the part of many agencies.

[Edited at 2013-10-01 22:05 GMT]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 21:13
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Yes, unfortunately, that's history Oct 1, 2013

Sheila Wilson wrote:
The change was made for a very good reason: all those bottom-feeding jobs displayed to everyone in the world was giving ProZ.com a bad name and leading everyone to think that such low rates were 'normal'. Please let's not go back to that state of affairs.


Actually, the events that you refer ot is an example of how a silent, sensible majority can be taken unawares by a loud minority for whom personal affront is more important than practicality.

The only real reason why those who objected to seeing budget information objected to it was because they took everything personally that they didn't like. They thought that low-paying agencies posted low-paying jobs specifically to annoy them, and they felt that ProZ.com should protect them from being exposed to something that gave them an uncontrollable urge to feel insulted (present company excluded, of course). At least, that is how I read the event.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 21:13
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Robert Oct 1, 2013

Robert Forstag wrote:
In my view, it makes all the sense in the world for postings that involve highly limited budgets to include this information, so that translators who refuse working for peanuts don't waste time and energy bidding on such jobs.


If I understand correctly, the current system works as follows:

The client is not allowed to enter budget information on the *first* screen of the job posting form. On the first screen, he fills in information that will help the system identify which translators qualify for the job. Then, when he moves to the second screen of the job posting form, ProZ.com checks to see if any of the qualifying translators indicated that they wish to see budget information. If not, then the client is given no opportunity to fill in budget information. But if some of the qualifying translators did indicate in their preferences that they wish to see budget information, then the client can fill in budget information on the second screen, and that information will be shown to such translators (and will be hidden [somewhat] from translators who chose not to see it).

Can anyone please confirm this?

I do think, however, that it should be stated more clearly on the first screen that there will be an opportunity later to fill in budget information, because the first screen of the job post form creates the impression that the client may not specify budget information ever. I wonder if this contributes to the fact that low-paying clients no longer state their budgets in jobs posts.

I *want* to see the budget information. I *want* to know whether I should spend time writing a nice-looking bid for the job. I promise that I will not take it personally and feel insulted and have my feelings hurt and suffer low self-esteem if a client dares to offer 0.01 per word. I just don't want to waste my time trying to figure out whether the client is such a client or not.


[Edited at 2013-10-01 21:02 GMT]


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