Just an idea/proposal to ProZ.com staff for Job posting/replying
Thread poster: Claudio Nasso

Claudio Nasso  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 06:13
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
Oct 20, 2013

All we perfectly know that here is not possible state, suggest, or endorse any sort of min/max translation rates.

And this is a fact! And I am not discussing it.

But I am suggesting a sort of general “feedback” of various rates offered when replying to a specific job proposal.

I mean… When replying to a possible translation project, we usually state our acceptable rates (high, medium or low, no problem about it), is it right?

Well, here I am asking to ProZ.com staff if it possible to insert in our reply forms through ProZ.com system (I mean, not when sending a direct E-mail to the outsourcer) a compulsory/required field to state our rates for a particular translation project, and then let the system to compute an aggregated and absolutely anonymous averaged rate based on all rates proposed by applicants for that particular job.

This reckoned aggregated/averaged result might appear next to the number of quotes received.

To be more clear, something similar to the following example (extracted from a “real” posted job).
Quotes received: 114 (Here it might appear the calculated global aggregated/averaged rate based on all rates proposed e.g.: Average: €0,08)
English to French: 28 (Here it might follow the calculated language combination aggregated/averaged rate based on rates proposed for this particular language combination e.g.: Average: €0,08)
English to Italian 47 (Here it might follow the calculated language combination aggregated/averaged rate based on rates proposed for this particular language combination e.g.: Average: €0,08)
English to Greek 23 (Here it might follow the calculated language combination aggregated/averaged rate based on rates proposed for this particular language combination e.g.: Average: €0,08)
English to Finnish 5 (Here it might follow the calculated language combination aggregated/averaged rate based on rates proposed for this particular language combination e.g.: Average: €0,08)
English to Dutch 12 (Here it might follow the calculated language combination aggregated/averaged rate based on rates proposed for this particular language combination e.g.: Average: €0,08)
English to Slovenian 7 (Here it might follow the calculated language combination aggregated/averaged rate based on rates proposed for this particular language combination e.g.: Average: €0,08)

As an aggregate result this will not infringe and rule and, from my point of view, might be useful in two ways:

  1. It will be immediately clear to anyone if the calculated aggregated/averaged rate fits their rates range, and better decide if they are willing to reply to a particular translation job request.

  2. This will supplement the already existing “Average rates reported by language pair” accessible at http://search.proz.com/employers/rates, sometimes not “real”.

Obviously, this works and will be meaningful only if there will be al least 5 replies to a specific translation project request/langauge pair.

It is only an idea to help us to decide if replying to job offers after being able to see if the calculated aggregated/averaged rates of other colleagues are outside our personal rates range, and outsourcers in avoinding to receive tons of further replies outside the aggregated/averaged rate expressed by previous applicants.

Thank you for your attention.

Claudio


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LegalTransform  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:13
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
rates Oct 20, 2013

Unfortunately this would only result in some people "bidding" below the average.

I understand your theory that if 100 people have bid €0,05, then adding your "quote" may be pointless.

However, I prefer to believe that I am worth what I charge even if 1,000 other people charge less and so this information would have little impact on my decision to "quote" or not. Believe it or not, price is only one factor in choosing a translator (or at least it should be).


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 06:13
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
I fully support your proposal, but... Oct 20, 2013

Claudio Nasso wrote:
It will be immediately clear to anyone if the calculated aggregated/averaged rate fits their rates range, and better decide if they are willing to reply to a particular translation job request.


Yes, I fully support your idea. Unfortunately you and I are too late. A group of translators who had only their own interest at heart banded together a few years ago and coerced ProZ.com's owners to forever abandon all schemes that might save translators time by revealing to them when a job is "below their rates", with the argument that forcing translators to bid on jobs for clients who can't actually afford them will somehow magically improve rates overall.

http://www.proz.com/about/ipetition/overview


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:13
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Really, Samuel? Oct 21, 2013

Samuel Murray wrote:
A group of translators who had only their own interest at heart banded together a few years ago and coerced ProZ.com's owners to forever abandon all schemes that might save translators time by revealing to them when a job is "below their rates", with the argument that forcing translators to bid on jobs for clients who can't actually afford them will somehow magically improve rates overall.

I'm amazed that you've interpreted those changes to the job posting system in that way, Samuel. As a paying member you are perfectly entitled to see (or hide) the client's proposed budget for the job.

The changes simply stopped the clients stating the rate in the main body of the text where they would be there for every visitor to ProZ.com to see - paying member, registered user or potential client who was looking to see what others were proposing to pay.

Claudio Nasso wrote:
It will be immediately clear to anyone if the calculated aggregated/averaged rate fits their rates range, and better decide if they are willing to reply to a particular translation job request.

I suppose there would be some advantages, Claudio, but I fear the disadvantages would far outweigh them. It could no doubt save a little of my time if I saw that others were quoting far lower than me. It would also be very cheering in those circumstances when bottom-feeders post ridiculous offers, and the first one or two quotes are for double, triple or more! That would cheer me up greatly.

However, when I quote for a job, I don't do it based on what everyone else is doing, nor should I be influenced by them. I quote what I need to earn from the job to maintain my standard of living. Full stop. It's a personal quote, between an outsourcer and a freelancer. And I can only see this sort of statistic bringing rates down even further as translators new to the profession will be greatly influenced by what they see to reduce their rates to a level that is totally inappropriate if they ever want to become true career translators rather than sweatshop workers.


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Enrique Cavalitto
Local time: 02:13
SITE STAFF
This could encourage reverse-bidding and lower rates Oct 21, 2013

Claudio Nasso wrote:

Well, here I am asking to ProZ.com staff if it possible to insert in our reply forms through ProZ.com system (I mean, not when sending a direct E-mail to the outsourcer) a compulsory/required field to state our rates for a particular translation project, and then let the system to compute an aggregated and absolutely anonymous averaged rate based on all rates proposed by applicants for that particular job.

This reckoned aggregated/averaged result might appear next to the number of quotes received.

To be more clear, something similar to the following example (extracted from a “real” posted job).
Quotes received: 114 (Here it might appear the calculated global aggregated/averaged rate based on all rates proposed e.g.: Average: €0,08)
English to French: 28 (Here it might follow the calculated language combination aggregated/averaged rate based on rates proposed for this particular language combination e.g.: Average: €0,08)
English to Italian 47 (Here it might follow the calculated language combination aggregated/averaged rate based on rates proposed for this particular language combination e.g.: Average: €0,08)
English to Greek 23 (Here it might follow the calculated language combination aggregated/averaged rate based on rates proposed for this particular language combination e.g.: Average: €0,08)
English to Finnish 5 (Here it might follow the calculated language combination aggregated/averaged rate based on rates proposed for this particular language combination e.g.: Average: €0,08)
English to Dutch 12 (Here it might follow the calculated language combination aggregated/averaged rate based on rates proposed for this particular language combination e.g.: Average: €0,08)
English to Slovenian 7 (Here it might follow the calculated language combination aggregated/averaged rate based on rates proposed for this particular language combination e.g.: Average: €0,08)

As an aggregate result this will not infringe and rule and, from my point of view, might be useful in two ways:

  1. It will be immediately clear to anyone if the calculated aggregated/averaged rate fits their rates range, and better decide if they are willing to reply to a particular translation job request.

  2. This will supplement the already existing “Average rates reported by language pair” accessible at http://search.proz.com/employers/rates, sometimes not “real”.

Obviously, this works and will be meaningful only if there will be al least 5 replies to a specific translation project request/langauge pair.

It is only an idea to help us to decide if replying to job offers after being able to see if the calculated aggregated/averaged rates of other colleagues are outside our personal rates range, and outsourcers in avoinding to receive tons of further replies outside the aggregated/averaged rate expressed by previous applicants.


Hi Claudio,

I believe the following FAQ is relevant here:
    Will service providers be quoting against each other?

    No, those who contact you will not have seen quotes from others. Service providers are encouraged to offer rates and turnaround times that allow them to offer their best work. Use your judgement in deciding whether a quote may be unreasonably low (thereby making it difficult to deliver careful work), or unreasonably high.


The publication of rates asked by translators for a given job could result in reverse bidding, with the new applicant lowering their rates below those published, in order to get the job. This would be obviously undesirable, as ProZ.com considers that the individual translator is in the best position to determine what he or she needs to charge for a given job.

On the other hand, if the job poster provided budget information in the dedicated box, and you indicated your preference to see this information, the poster's budget will be visible to you.

Regards,
Enrique


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