Disconnecting from connect list
Thread poster: Bernhard Sulzer

Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:01
English to German
+ ...
Feb 27, 2014

I will never

a) intentionally accept or provide translations with any kind of mistakes, especially not with a stipulation as this:
"We don't expect great linguistic quality. Do not correct typos, punctuation, small grammatical errors and other issues found in the MT translation we provide to you that do not affect solely the meaning of the translation. Simply read the original text and then validate the MT translation."
(I changed the words a bit to protect the connect poster, but this is based on a real offer I received).

and
I will never

b) "read" an original text and "proofread/validate" its MT translation - for proofreading/validation rates.

MT translations are not to be trusted for accuracy - machines typically can't handle correct word order and they hardly ever use the "correct" words - since almost every word will need a particular translation and there are many choices to translate any word (the machine doesn't know what the correct choice is - it's like playing the lottery.

It's much more work to read original texts AND their MT translations to arrive at a correct translation than it is to simply provide an accurate (human-only) translation of the original text.
This was not the first time I received such an offer through this connect system. The thing is, the posters of these jobs have done a search and then decide who to contact. I am sure they contact a lot of people.

I took myself off this connect list. I don't see the point of being on it.
My point is that I had first thought this was a good way for good clients and good translation providers to find each other but this has not been my experience. Was there ever a point to it being such a tool?


B

[Edited at 2014-02-27 22:16 GMT]


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 03:01
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Can't imagine anyone applying for that one Feb 27, 2014

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
My point is that I had first thought this was a good way for good clients and good translation providers to find each other but this has not been my experience. Was there ever a point to it being such a tool?

I've had more bad than good experiences with it, too. I don't know if there's some sort of advantage to the outsourcer, but I'm not seeing any at my end.


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Mark Benson  Identity Verified

English to Swedish
+ ...
Disconnect from Job Board too? Feb 27, 2014

I like Connect. I have received jobs there, quick and easy. Very happy results for both parts. Only good offers. One seemed bad, but turned out great!

But the job offer you describe isn't serious. It takes less than a minute to figure out that it can't work for the lsp financially, whereas the buyers are fishing for a major value.

Your reaction is to say goodbye to the Connect system. I'm sure you're familiar with the amount of job offers on the Job Board with rates that are impossibly low, sign up offers, various forms of attempts at exploitation and even scamming.

Are you going to stop using the Job Board system too?

[Edited at 2014-02-27 23:51 GMT]


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Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:01
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
It's serious Feb 28, 2014

Mark Benson wrote:

I like Connect. I have received jobs there, quick and easy. Very happy results for both parts. Only good offers. One seemed bad, but turned out great!

But the job offer you describe isn't serious. It takes less than a minute to figure out that it can't work for the lsp financially, whereas the buyers are fishing for a major value.

Your reaction is to say goodbye to the Connect system. I'm sure you're familiar with the amount of job offers on the Job Board with rates that are impossibly low, sign up offers, various forms of attempts at exploitation and even scamming.

Are you going to stop using the Job Board system too?

[Edited at 2014-02-27 23:51 GMT]


Hi Mark. I haven't had the same experience as you as far as the job connect system is concerned.

The offer I referenced was posted on the connect system, so at least the system treats it as a serious offer. And therein lies part of the problem I am having.

I was told that posters to the connect system first do a directory search and then contact specific translators. You would expect that it's outsourcers who look for quality and are willing to pay more who would use this system. But a job like the one above tells me there aren't any other "quality" standards than for any other postings. Maybe it was the look and the more personal appearance that made me think there were. We can hope for better projects but there aren't any criteria to ensure that. I also believe the posters can contact as many Proz.com members as they choose, with one posting.
As Sheila hinted above, it seems to favor outsourcers who "appear" to be quite professional by using it, but it doesn't really make any difference to the translator when compared with mass posting systems.

I can't say it worked for me in the past. If it works for you, I am glad. I decided I don't need it. I much prefer clients who contact me directly through my profile or my own email.

B

[Edited at 2014-02-28 03:34 GMT]


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Madeleine MacRae Klintebo  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:01
Swedish to English
+ ...
Only good offers? Feb 28, 2014

Mark Benson wrote:

I like Connect. I have received jobs there, quick and easy. Very happy results for both parts. Only good offers. One seemed bad, but turned out great!



Although we work in the same language pairs, your experience is very different from my one. Maybe because I don't do "quick and easy", I prefer "slow and difficult" - and charge for it.


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Madeleine MacRae Klintebo  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:01
Swedish to English
+ ...
I can't answer for Bernhard Feb 28, 2014

Mark Benson wrote:


Are you going to stop using the Job Board system too?


...but I've never used the Job board, all productive assignments via ProZ have arrived via direct email.


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Mark Benson  Identity Verified

English to Swedish
+ ...
At a loss Feb 28, 2014

Madeleine MacRae Klintebo wrote:

Mark Benson wrote:


Are you going to stop using the Job Board system too?


...but I've never used the Job board, all productive assignments via ProZ have arrived via direct email.


I had tremendous luck! One of these was a favorite type of assignment; subtitling for erotic films. The other can't be discussed on ProZ.com because of their rules on contents. Two very reputable agencies.

I find your whole comment strange though. If your rates are within my budget, I have a lot of places to look for translators before I turn to ProZ.com ...

I'm at a loss!


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Madeleine MacRae Klintebo  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:01
Swedish to English
+ ...
Now I understand Feb 28, 2014

Mark Benson wrote:

Madeleine MacRae Klintebo wrote:

Mark Benson wrote:


Are you going to stop using the Job Board system too?


...but I've never used the Job board, all productive assignments via ProZ have arrived via direct email.


I had tremendous luck! One of these was a favorite type of assignment; subtitling for erotic films. The other can't be discussed on ProZ.com because of their rules on contents. Two very reputable agencies.

I find your whole comment strange though. If your rates are within my budget, I have a lot of places to look for translators before I turn to ProZ.com ...

I'm at a loss!


...why I've found many of your posts in this and other threads hard to understand. We obviously work in totally different segments of the industry.


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Mark Benson  Identity Verified

English to Swedish
+ ...
Ok, but I don't Feb 28, 2014

Madeleine MacRae Klintebo wrote:

Mark Benson wrote:

Madeleine MacRae Klintebo wrote:

Mark Benson wrote:


Are you going to stop using the Job Board system too?


...but I've never used the Job board, all productive assignments via ProZ have arrived via direct email.


I had tremendous luck! One of these was a favorite type of assignment; subtitling for erotic films. The other can't be discussed on ProZ.com because of their rules on contents. Two very reputable agencies.

I find your whole comment strange though. If your rates are within my budget, I have a lot of places to look for translators before I turn to ProZ.com ...

I'm at a loss!


...why I've found many of your posts in this and other threads hard to understand. We obviously work in totally different segments of the industry.


I think this is a bit off topic, but since your comment got published, I should counter by asking: In what 'segment' of what 'industry' do get away with charging 0.2 - 0.3 euro per word?


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Mark Benson  Identity Verified

English to Swedish
+ ...
Follow-up Mar 1, 2014

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:

Hi Mark. I haven't had the same experience as you as far as the job connect system is concerned.

The offer I referenced was posted on the connect system, so at least the system treats it as a serious offer. And therein lies part of the problem I am having.


Do you mean that you already consider the Job Board un-serious, or that you were expecting stricter vetting of the Connect system?

I was told that posters to the connect system first do a directory search and then contact specific translators. You would expect that it's outsourcers who look for quality and are willing to pay more who would use this system.


As Stridonium member Lisa Simpson, you probably know her, has already pointed out here in the ForumZ: This site is not anybody's first choice when looking for an LSP. Much less with any fantasy budgets.

As Sheila hinted above, it seems to favor outsourcers who "appear" to be quite professional by using it, but it doesn't really make any difference to the translator when compared with mass posting systems.


I don't understand how anybody can appear more or less professional by using one site function or the other. I think it's all the same, and honestly I find it on the whole to be very little value to pay for. But I actually found the Connect System particularly quick and easy to use, and if it continues to work the way it has for me - it's a winning concept for this site.

I can't say it worked for me in the past. If it works for you, I am glad. I decided I don't need it. I much prefer clients who contact me directly through my profile or my own email.

B

[Edited at 2014-02-28 03:34 GMT]


I appreciate all business, no matter how it finds me. However, ProZ.com, on the whole, is not a place where I would like to be found or known - at all, right now.

My thought about why the Connect System, or ProZ.com as a whole, is problematic is that there is what I feel is a 'work pyramid' with the CPN on top, with KudoZ points, with Translators Without Borders... All kinds of 'work for free' aspects. And the marketing you get through the site is always laced with marketing of the site.

The way it feels to me is that the more obedient you show yourself willing to be, the more you show yourself willing to work and 'help' for free etc. - the better are your chances to get business. And as a consequence, the greater the risk of that business turning out non-paying.

A more open and honest system with more emphasis on service to members would be the way to go for the site. Is the Connect System a move in that direction, or another way of encouraging heavy site use (CPN, KudoZ, TWB etc.?)


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Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:01
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
Could you please specify? Mar 1, 2014

Mark Benson wrote

I appreciate all business, no matter how it finds me. However, ProZ.com, on the whole, is not a place where I would like to be found or known


Can you please explain why you are registered here? If you don't want to be found or known at ProZ.com as a whole, solution is easy(IMHO).

In my case, I do want (and I am) found and known here, my major clients found me here.

You were a moderator until some weeks ago, so why did you accept or applied for that role if you don't want to be found and known here?

Could you kindly explain, please?

P.S.; edited for typo




[Edited at 2014-03-01 16:46 GMT]


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Mark Benson  Identity Verified

English to Swedish
+ ...
Don't get me wrong Mar 1, 2014

Angie Garbarino wrote:

Mark Benson wrote

I appreciate all business, no matter how it finds me. However, ProZ.com, on the whole, is not a place where I would like to be found or known


Can you please explain why you are registered here? If you don't want to be found or known at ProZ.com as a whole, solution is easy(IMHO).

In my case, I do want (and I am) found and known here, my major clients found me here.

You were a moderator until some weeks ago, so why did you accept or applied for that role if you don't want to be found and known here?

Could you kindly explain, please?

P.S.; edited for typo




[Edited at 2014-03-01 16:46 GMT]


I have been a user for over 10 years. The last year I've been a paid member to try it out. I took part in marketing ProZ.com through the site's Certified PRO Network. And as you mention, I volunteered in the Moderator Program.

The difference in offers to inbox = 0. It's the same scammers and spammers as over past years, when I have to admit that my ProZ.com account has been associated with my 'spam account' for the most part. Now the Connect System is an exception, and it's paid me decades of memberships so I can only say that it's a happy aspect of the site for me.

As far as I know it's still possible to delete your profile here. I'm not considering that possibility right now, however. No reason for that! But I meant what I said in the sense that I don't care to be associated with the site, which is due to the fact that I have my own show to run, right here in my 'office,' which is 100% unrelated to this site.

I'm grateful for the attention and hope that I've answered your questions! Otherwise I'll gladly go into further detail.

Best regards/
Mark


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