Ban on "job offers"
Thread poster: Jarosław Napierała

Jarosław Napierała  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:10
Member (2008)
English to Polish
+ ...
May 19

Hello guys,

I've come across several job offers recently which could be characterized by one common feature: they were all posted by agencies that had low/very low rating, due to the fact that at least 5 or more translators reported incredible problems with payments.

So, wouldn't it make sense to simply put a ban on such agencies and make it impossible for them to place any more job offers for assignments for which they either don't want to pay on time or pay only after getting "1" in BB?

What do you think?

My view is that if an agency has 3 or more payments issues reported by generally recognized and respected translator, it should be impossible for them to place any job offers in the future whatsoever.

Kind regards, Jarek.


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EvaVer  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:10
Member (2012)
Czech to English
+ ...
Yes, but... May 19

On the one hand, an agency may have temporary problems and get over them (that's what the "last 12 months" figure is for). On the other hand, when an agency has poor reputation, the owners just rename it or found another one, so that a ban would be a very short-lived solution. Everything depends on people - and not only the owners, but also employees, and they are replaced over time. I think it's up to everybody to look up their rating and decide - poeple may also have different standards.

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Yasutomo Kanazawa  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:10
English to Japanese
+ ...
Yes, very annoying May 19

Jarosław Napierała wrote:

Hello guys,

I've come across several job offers recently which could be characterized by one common feature: they were all posted by agencies that had low/very low rating, due to the fact that at least 5 or more translators reported incredible problems with payments.

So, wouldn't it make sense to simply put a ban on such agencies and make it impossible for them to place any more job offers for assignments for which they either don't want to pay on time or pay only after getting "1" in BB?

What do you think?

My view is that if an agency has 3 or more payments issues reported by generally recognized and respected translator, it should be impossible for them to place any job offers in the future whatsoever.

Kind regards, Jarek.


I agree to what EvaVer and you wrote above, but I find it very annoying that an agency with poor ratings due to payment problems can post job offers on Proz.
I know one Chinese agency whose past 12 month record is 1.5, where all the translators giving them low ratings are due to payment issues. Their tactics are that they ONLY pay when somebody enters a low rating of "1" on BB, and I consider this a border line criminal activity. These agencies should be banned from posting jobs at Proz, IMO.


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mariealpilles  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 23:10
Member (2014)
English to French
+ ...
Should there be a ban on bad payers? May 19

I know of at least one agency which has been banned for a few years now from posting on ProZ because they are known for being non payers or at best bad payers. Yet, I am surprised to read that some people are still hired and then post on BB. I am just wondering how they get to hear about that agency's jobs? Maybe being contacted directly?

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Jenny Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:10
Member (2006)
French to English
+ ...
Getting offers from Proz-banned outsourcers May 19

First of all, Proz already operates a system of banning job offers from agencies with bad payment records - I'm not sure exactly how it works, but it has been discussed in these forums before.

I have occasionally received job offers from agencies hitherto unknown to me and, when I looked for them on the Blue Board (which I always do), I saw that they had been banned from posting jobs at Proz.
I don't know how they found me but probably from seeking translators either here or elsewhere online.
In such cases, I have always replied with something like "I see that you have been banned from posting jobs at Proz" and have declined the offer.
In one case, the outsourcer said he'd be prepared to pay me in advance for the whole job. I accepted on that basis and, once the transfer had reached my bank account, I did the job. I never heard from him again, as far as I can remember so I guess I didn't save him from his doom ...


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José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 20:10
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Rogue agency maneuvers May 19

AFAIK Proz bans an agency from posting jobs after the third evidenced case of "non-payment, period!"

However most rogue agencies - though it's forbidden - use blackmail to the tune of "give us a 5 on the Blue Board, and we'll pay you Friday next week" after the translator's invoice has been past overdue for a couple of months. Of course, the translator is working for the payment, not for protecting colleagues from such agencies. As they say, "Love your friend, but look to yourself."

Others invite a flock of small-time cheap vendors to give them 5s on the BB. The problem is that - for the Blue Board score - ten $10-ish jobs punctually paid 30 days after month-end are worth 10X one $3,000 job paid 90 days later than agreed.

From the number of "MUST have Trados" (and never any other CAT tool is demanded so earnestly), I come to think that it's the default setting on Proz. I guess the job poster has to disable this mandatory requirement, and confirm such waiver at least twice, for Proz to accept such setting. The message is that such job poster would rather have a fledgling translator with Trados than the world's #1 SME without it for that translation. If this is true, a Trados license - for as long as it remains valid - should include a free top-level Proz subscription.

IMHO, there's a sucker born every minute. So banning bad job offers on Proz won't rid the market from bad clients. If Proz bans them, they'll just move their offers to... (can't name names here, but their most striking color is yellow).


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Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:10
French to English
The point is... May 20

Yasutomo Kanazawa wrote:

Jarosław Napierała wrote:

Hello guys,

I've come across several job offers recently which could be characterized by one common feature: they were all posted by agencies that had low/very low rating, due to the fact that at least 5 or more translators reported incredible problems with payments.

So, wouldn't it make sense to simply put a ban on such agencies and make it impossible for them to place any more job offers for assignments for which they either don't want to pay on time or pay only after getting "1" in BB?

What do you think?

My view is that if an agency has 3 or more payments issues reported by generally recognized and respected translator, it should be impossible for them to place any job offers in the future whatsoever.

Kind regards, Jarek.


I agree to what EvaVer and you wrote above, but I find it very annoying that an agency with poor ratings due to payment problems can post job offers on Proz.
I know one Chinese agency whose past 12 month record is 1.5, where all the translators giving them low ratings are due to payment issues. Their tactics are that they ONLY pay when somebody enters a low rating of "1" on BB, and I consider this a border line criminal activity. These agencies should be banned from posting jobs at Proz, IMO.


... that translators bidding for jobs via ProZ should check the Blueboard before accepting an offer. That way, they will stop posting. That's the theory, anyway. The problem is that people tend to check only when there is a problem, by which time it is too late.

ProZ jobs is a noticeboard, nothing more, nothing less. In fact, yes, a little more, in so far as you can check the Blueboard beforehand.

When working freelance in France, business charges are so high that it is not possible to be competitive at the level of rates of jobs posted on ProZ, so I don't bother to apply for jobs here. If I did, I'd certainly check the Blueboard beforehand and use my own common sense.

Common sense is your best arbiter! And caveat emptor!


[Edited at 2017-05-20 09:43 GMT]


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Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 23:10
Member
English to Italian
+ ...
Not really... May 20

Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:

... that translators bidding for jobs via ProZ should check the Blueboard before accepting an offer. That way, they will stop posting. That's the theory, anyway. The problem is that people tend to check only when there is a problem, by which time it is too late.

ProZ jobs is a noticeboard, nothing more, nothing less. In fact, yes, a little more, in so far as you can check the Blueboard beforehand.

When working freelance in France, business charges are so high that it is not possible to be competitive at the level of rates of jobs posted on ProZ, so I don't bother to apply for jobs here. If I did, I'd certainly check the Blueboard beforehand and use my own common sense.

Common sense is your best arbiter! And caveat emptor!


Then why ban outsourcers at all? Or why pay to have the privilege of quoting (until last year there also was a partial membership specifically for that)? I believe that allowing people with 'questionable ethics' to operate does not reflect very positively on the venue where that is allowed to happen (what José Henrique was saying at the end of his post above is a clear example of that).

Besides, the point here is that it's not "caveat emptor", as far as we're concerned, but rather "caveat venditor"... That's the problem... and quite a tangible one at that.


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Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:10
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Keep the ban system as it is May 20

EvaVer wrote:

On the one hand, an agency may have temporary problems and get over them (that's what the "last 12 months" figure is for). On the other hand, when an agency has poor reputation, the owners just rename it or found another one, so that a ban would be a very short-lived solution. Everything depends on people - and not only the owners, but also employees, and they are replaced over time. I think it's up to everybody to look up their rating and decide - poeple may also have different standards.


I tend to agree with EvaVer here. Better to have the ugly truth before your eyes and make your own decisions accordingly than drive a company to change its name and/or place its postings elsewhere. I do not mean to sound hard-hearted, but anyone who accepts a job from an outsourcer with a string of low ratings reflecting chronic payment issues cannot be said to be a helpless victim. Maybe they can become sadder and wiser as the result of such carelessness.

J. Lamensdorf wrote:
However most rogue agencies - though it's forbidden - use blackmail to the tune of "give us a 5 on the Blue Board, and we'll pay you Friday next week" after the translator's invoice has been past overdue for a couple of months. Of course, the translator is working for the payment, not for protecting colleagues from such agencies. As they say, "Love your friend, but look to yourself."


Anyone who would agree to such arrangements with an agency that has already failed to meet its basic obligation to pay on time is very foolish indeed. If anything (and I don't necessarily agree with this either) the translator should post a rating of "1" and report non-payment, and then agree to consider modification of any rating or comment upon receipt of payment (but not changing a "1" and report of non-payment to a "5" accompanied by rhapsodies to the wondrous collaboration with the outsourcer in question).

Fair and reasonable in such a situation might be something like changing the "1" to a "2" with the comment (often seen on the BB) "payment submitted XX days late after comment here."

J. Lamensdorf wrote:
IMHO, there's a sucker born every minute. So banning bad job offers on Proz won't rid the market from bad clients. If Proz bans them, they'll just move their offers to... (can't name names here, but their most striking color is yellow).


I am truly puzzled here. I would have thought the color in question was more of a coffee shade. Can you provide further hints (without, of course, violating the rules of this forum)?


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