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"Premium"(?) jobs do not necessarily pay above-market rates
Thread poster: Mirko Mainardi

Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 10:34
Member
English to Italian
+ ...
Jul 27

I just received this: "[ProZ.com Premium job] EN-IT: Recurrent travel blog posts of around 9,000 words a month for an international airline".

Then, reading the email, I find this: "We would consider any price upto €0.06". WOW, definitely a "premium job"... and from a 5/5 outsourcer, no less...

Just for reference:
"4.5 - What is a premium job?

A job is considered premium when the project pays at or above market rates for the given language pair, and pays the translator a minimum of €100." - http://www.proz.com/faq/4093#4093

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2017-08-21 04:34 GMT]


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MK2010  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:34
Member (Jun 2017)
French to English
+ ...
Yes, but... Jul 28

...it's a monthly gig if you get it. 9,000 words a month for an international airline, which is sort of prestigious. That's over 500 euros a month. In some places, that's your rent right there. I'd say it's a very interesting job offer and if it were in my language pair, I would definitely go for it. Regular gigs are hard to come by.

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Jan Truper
Germany
Local time: 10:34
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
... Jul 28

MK2010 wrote:

... for an international airline, which is sort of prestigious.



In my view, this is reason to charge more, not less.


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Thomas Pfann  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:34
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
Go for it ... Jul 28

... and quote your price.

In German this was phrased slightly differently ("a rate per word of up X would be ideal"). If it sounds interesting (and it certainly does) why not quote your price and tell them what you have to offer? They don't exactly sound like bottom-feeders who'd give the job to the cheapest one around.


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David GAY  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
English to French
+ ...
up to Jul 28

MK2010 wrote:

...it's a monthly gig if you get it. 9,000 words a month for an international airline, which is sort of prestigious. That's over 500 euros a month. In some places, that's your rent right there. I'd say it's a very interesting job offer and if it were in my language pair, I would definitely go for it. Regular gigs are hard to come by.




it's UP TO 0.06 euro. Perhaps the final rate will be 0.03!


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Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 10:34
English to Croatian
+ ...
And perhaps Jul 28

David GAY wrote:

MK2010 wrote:

...it's a monthly gig if you get it. 9,000 words a month for an international airline, which is sort of prestigious. That's over 500 euros a month. In some places, that's your rent right there. I'd say it's a very interesting job offer and if it were in my language pair, I would definitely go for it. Regular gigs are hard to come by.




it's UP TO 0.06 euro. Perhaps the final rate will be 0.03!


And perhaps 9k words a month will turn into 9k words a year!


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Dr. Matthias Schauen  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:34
Member
English to German
Not market rates Jul 28

The ProZ community rates for EN>IT translation give an average standard rate of EUR0.09/word, and an average minimum rate of EUR0.07/word. (Note that filtering for fields of expertise does not work. I keep telling ProZ.com in yearly intervals.)

Mirko, according to the FAQs you could send a support ticket:
If you feel a job has been posted as premium and the above conditions have not been met, please enter a support ticket, citing the specific post with a URL. (http://www.proz.com/faq/4093#4093)


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David GAY  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
English to French
+ ...
disagree Jul 28

Dr. Matthias Schauen wrote:

The ProZ community rates for EN>IT translation give an average standard rate of EUR0.09/word, and an average minimum rate of EUR0.07/word. (Note that filtering for fields of expertise does not work. I keep telling ProZ.com in yearly intervals.)

Mirko, according to the FAQs you could send a support ticket:
If you feel a job has been posted as premium and the above conditions have not been met, please enter a support ticket, citing the specific post with a URL. (http://www.proz.com/faq/4093#4093)


The market rates are not significant in themselves. It all depends on the field you work in.
You simply can't expect translation of cooking recipes and touristic texts to pay as much as
high level legal, financial, medical or engineering translations! If you don't understand this,
you'll end up translating medical texts for the price of cooking recipes!

[Modifié le 2017-07-28 10:41 GMT]

[Modifié le 2017-07-28 10:42 GMT]

[Modifié le 2017-07-28 10:46 GMT]

[Modifié le 2017-07-28 10:53 GMT]

[Modifié le 2017-07-28 11:37 GMT]

[Modifié le 2017-07-28 11:42 GMT]


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Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 10:34
Member
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
"Premium" Jul 28

Hi all,

Actually, I posted this under "ProZ.com job systems" specifically because this was about the job system and the usage of the "Premium" label. Before posting this I checked the fora and found a thread dating back to 2007 where similar concerns were raised (and I'm sure there'll be others lying around).

So, this was not meant as the umpteenth thread about low rates and the end of the (translation) world.

David GAY wrote:

The market rates are not significant in themselves. It all depends on the field you work in.
You can't expect translation of cooking recipes and touristic translation to pay as much as
legal, financial, medical or engineering translations!


And yet, that's what ProZ own FAQ about "Premium jobs" (as quoted) says: "at or above market rates for the given language pair". Besides, considering we don't have any other reference here than ProZ own "community rates", we can only use those as a reference...

Dr. Matthias Schauen wrote:

Mirko, according to the FAQs you could send a support ticket:


Yes, I did that. The reply was: "I will contact the outsourcer regarding the matter".


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José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 07:34
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Premium is relative Jul 28

There is another paragraph at http://www.proz.com/faq/4096#4096:
Note that it can hurt a company's reputation to mark a job as premium if potential candidates do not consider it as such. It is therefore in an outsourcer's own interest to be selective about which jobs it calls premium.


Let's consider a 10,000 words EN>PT translation job, paying EUR 0.10/word via PayPal in 60 days after delivery.
  • Proz Community Rates says the average for this pair is EUR 0.09/word.
  • Translator will supposedly be paid EUR 1,000 sixty days later.
  • Proz Community Rate for this pair is EUR 0.09/word

Apparently this is a Premium Job. Is it?

Case 1: Target is European PT, translator located in Portugal
PayPal fee is 3.4%
No currency exchange fees - everything in EUR
APR on credit cards (reference for interest calculation) is 10.1%, so 1.6% for two months
Translator will receive NET EUR 1,000 - (3.4% + 1.6%) = EUR 950

Case 2: Target is Brazilian PT, translator located in Brazil
PayPal fee is 6.5%
PayPal currency exchange fee is 3.5%
APR on credit cards (reference for interest calculation) is 490% (sic!!!), so 34.3% for two months
Translator will receive NET EUR 1,000 - (6.5% + 3.5% + 34.3%) = EUR 557

Something quite similar would occur if we compared an EN>ES translation between Spain and Argentina (where Proz has offices - so they should be aware of it).

So while globalization exists, the one-size-fits-all approach does NOT apply globally.


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Kevin Fulton  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:34
German to English
Prestige doesn't pay the rent Jul 28

MK2010 wrote:

an international airline, which is sort of prestigious.


My friends might be impressed if I had such a prestigious customer (but probably not, given their reaction when I worked on manuals for an ultra-high-end automaker). I'd rather get a good rate on a regular basis from a customer with little name recognition.


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David GAY  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
English to French
+ ...
PROZ is not the holy Bible Jul 28

Mirko Mainardi wrote:


And yet, that's what ProZ own FAQ about remium jobs" (as quoted) says: "at or above market rates for the given language pair". Besides, considering we don't have any other reference here than ProZ own "community rates", we can only use those as a reference...

".


Only newbies believe in the community rates published by PROZ. If you have a look at the rates translators
volunteering for PROZ display on their profile, you'll soon understand that they don't believe in the PROZ community rates anymore ...


[Modifié le 2017-07-28 11:51 GMT]

[Modifié le 2017-07-28 11:53 GMT]

[Modifié le 2017-07-28 11:55 GMT]


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Ramey Rieger  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:34
Member (2010)
German to English
Where, how and who you are Jul 28

Greetings all!

We really should keep in mind that there are beginners out there, needing experience and some good references on their profile page. Also, beyond the compliance issue (Premium?), this project may be of interest to beginners, dabblers, part-timers, etc. but NOT to a professional trying to survive. Getting all excited about 500.€ a month in Germany (whether it comes in or not is another can of worms) for work that COULD take a week (and another can of worms) seems unrealistic, but I'm an old-timer and like to eat well.
Practically speaking, if you're interested, contact the outsourcer, offering your going rate (non-negotiable) and the obligatory sample translation, which you certainly have in stock. When they turn down a non-starvation rate, then it's time for a support ticket.
If you ask me, (well this IS a forum) I wouldn't work for 0.9€ per source word.

Take care and happy translating,
Ramey


[Edited at 2017-07-28 11:53 GMT]


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David GAY  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
English to French
+ ...
yes Jul 28

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

There is another paragraph at http://www.proz.com/faq/4096#4096:
Note that it can hurt a company's reputation to mark a job as premium if potential candidates do not consider it as such. It is therefore in an outsourcer's own interest to be selective about which jobs it calls premium.


Let's consider a 10,000 words EN>PT translation job, paying EUR 0.10/word via PayPal in 60 days after delivery.
  • Proz Community Rates says the average for this pair is EUR 0.09/word.
  • Translator will supposedly be paid EUR 1,000 sixty days later.
  • Proz Community Rate for this pair is EUR 0.09/word

Apparently this is a Premium Job. Is it?

Case 1: Target is European PT, translator located in Portugal
PayPal fee is 3.4%
No currency exchange fees - everything in EUR
APR on credit cards (reference for interest calculation) is 10.1%, so 1.6% for two months
Translator will receive NET EUR 1,000 - (3.4% + 1.6%) = EUR 950

Case 2: Target is Brazilian PT, translator located in Brazil
PayPal fee is 6.5%
PayPal currency exchange fee is 3.5%
APR on credit cards (reference for interest calculation) is 490% (sic!!!), so 34.3% for two months
Translator will receive NET EUR 1,000 - (6.5% + 3.5% + 34.3%) = EUR 557

Something quite similar would occur if we compared an EN>ES translation between Spain and Argentina (where Proz has offices - so they should be aware of it).

So while globalization exists, the one-size-fits-all approach does NOT apply globally.


Yes, but in Brazil, you don't have to buy fruits. You can pluck them for free.


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Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 10:34
Member
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Nor the Quran Jul 28

David GAY wrote:

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

And yet, that's what ProZ own FAQ about remium jobs" (as quoted) says: "at or above market rates for the given language pair". Besides, considering we don't have any other reference here than ProZ own "community rates", we can only use those as a reference..."


Only newbies believe in the community rates published by PROZ. If you have a look at the rates translators
volunteering for PROZ display on their profile, you'll soon understand that they don't believe in the PROZ community rates anymore


David, this is not a 'matter of faith', of believing in fairy tales, etc., but of how the system works. If ProZ itself decided to use its own "community rates" as a parameter for how one of its features works, then that's how it should be. No subjectivity is involved there.

That said, personally (subjectively), what I do believe is that €0.06 psw is a low rate for any kind of translation work, especially if that work includes some sort of specialist knowledge, research and/or creativity, and I definitely do not believe that based on the "community rates" published by ProZ...


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