| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51] > | New at ProZ.com: Outsourcer "willingness to work again" feedback for translators Thread poster: Enrique Cavalitto
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| I'm not sure he did | Jun 27, 2006 |
Elena Woontner wrote:
..But I am witnessing goodwill and effort coming from Henry. He understood our issue.
He goes on saying that this feature is "good for us". Now how is it that an overwhelming majority of us is against it and those who expressed their reluctance since the beginning don't have changed their mind since then?
Too many questions are still open that need an urgent and claryfying reply.
| | | | MichaelRS (X)
Local time: 05:48
| Just about to post the same thing | Jun 27, 2006 |
He goes on saying that this feature is "good for us". Now how is it that an overwhelming majority of us is against it and those who expressed their reluctance since the beginning don't have changed their mind since then?
Too many questions are still open that need an urgent and claryfying reply.
I was just about to post on that.
Here is what Henry wrote (I think on page 14):
"One note in closing: It seems to me that the goals of the system have been misunderstood by a good number of those posting here. All we are trying to do is give translators a convenient new way to tap what is one of the most effective form of marketing -- word of mouth from satisfied clients -- to their personal advantage (if they so choose). I'll make sure this goal is clearer in future discussion of the feature."
What bothered me was not this issue per se, but the feeling that he is starting to cross a line here to go on a new data-collection adventure.
I have to say that before this feature was introduced, I was almost astounded at how amicable Henry seemed with regard to issues on the board. I'm not saying that sarcastically - I thought he really listened to what people were saying and tried to adjust the board for even petty matters - far more than you usually run across in life.
But I get the feeling that there may be marketing ideas at work here (people will have to nag their clients to come on this board to give them a good review) or other things that are not being clearly brought out. The feeling is: The translators are going to like it, and I'm going to make them like it somehow.
| | | | Alicia Casal 
Argentina
Local time: 00:48
English to Spanish
+ ...
| English Forum | Jun 27, 2006 |
What about those translators who do not read English?
Alicia
| | | | | Just ignore it, Marc | Jun 27, 2006 |
MarcPrior wrote:
Speaking for myself, I have no objection to ProZ.com gathering and publishing testimonials on behalf of other ProZ.com users, if that is what those users wish.
The key issue is that it isn't ProZ.com's prerogative to decide that such a feature is good for all users and to impose it upon them.
Marc, have you read what has been posted? We are providing this for those who want it. You don't have to use it and it won't appear in your profile. By default, you are opted out. Do nothing, and you will in no way be affected.
I hope this is satisfactory to you, because I consider it a fair enough starting point.
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| We will begin improving the system for those who have started using it | Jun 27, 2006 |
At this point, we'll start implementing the requests we have received from those who are interesting in making use of client feedback in their marketing.
We'll give notice again when some improvements have been made.
Thanks again, everyone, for your frank input. In this case, clearly an adjustment was necessary to better serve the disparate preferences of our community. I appreciate your help in finding a compromise and planning a trial.
Also, for the recor... See more At this point, we'll start implementing the requests we have received from those who are interesting in making use of client feedback in their marketing.
We'll give notice again when some improvements have been made.
Thanks again, everyone, for your frank input. In this case, clearly an adjustment was necessary to better serve the disparate preferences of our community. I appreciate your help in finding a compromise and planning a trial.
Also, for the record, I have never in my life claimed to know what is "good for us", as Terry has incorrectly paraphrased me. She was making the point that the feedback system is intended for outsourcers, and in response, I pointed out that feedback is good for translators, too. (I went on to point out that it is not an us-vs-them situation.)
I know that you all know your businesses better than I do, and I would be a silly person to presume otherwise. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | We can't "just ignore it" | Jun 27, 2006 |
Henry wrote: MarcPrior wrote:
Speaking for myself, I have no objection to ProZ.com gathering and publishing testimonials on behalf of other ProZ.com users, if that is what those users wish.
The key issue is that it isn't ProZ.com's prerogative to decide that such a feature is good for all users and to impose it upon them. Marc, have you read what has been posted? We are providing this for those who want it. You don't have to use it and it won't appear in your profile. By default, you are opted out. Do nothing, and you will in no way be affected. I hope this is satisfactory to you, because I consider it a fair enough starting point.
We cannot "just ignore it". Information is being collected and stored without our consent. You cannot say we will be "in no way affected" if that data is still being collected.
The "for those who want it" refers to the display of the information. We object to its unauthorized collection and storage.
| | | | | Valid concern, Terry. Can we close out the prior matter, first? | Jun 27, 2006 |
Terry Thatcher Waltz, Ph.D. wrote:
The "for those who want it" refers to the display of the information. We object to its unauthorized collection and storage.
OK. Your emphasis has changed, then, from control of your own profile and choice of marketing approach... to control of information, period.
It is a legitimate topic for discussion. But may I ask a question before we begin? I'd like to close out the prior matter first, to confirm that we are making progress.
My question: Are you now satisfied on the issue of choice, and control over your profile and marketing choices?
It would help me to hear responses not only from Terry, but also from those who objected previously on the grounds of being able to control their profiles and businesses.
| | | | | I'm still not convinced, Henry | Jun 27, 2006 |
Henry wrote: Ivana de Sousa Santos wrote:
Even if we are having a trial run first, from what I have perceived of all the posting I've read since the beginning there is no use to continue on disagreeing with the feature because:
1) Most people who participated were against it
2) Only a few people said to set up a trial run
The choice of Proz.com was to hear the minority and still do a trial run. If you look only at this forum thread, you may conclude that the majority of the community is against having a feedback feature. In fact, the reaction is mixed. Sixty-one people have used the new system to request feedback, compared to the 64 (total) who have posted in this thread. By way of comparison, this number of people using the new feature is higher than the number that used KudoZ in its first days. In other words, there is clearly a sizable segment that at least would like to experiment. For now, our primary objective is to satisfy the immediate needs of both camps. Then we'll learn and refine... We've taken the first step in that direction. I'll post again shortly.
And the more postings I read (specially the long one made by Terry with which I totally agree and which was my point in my previous posting as well, althought she explained much better than I did) I get even less convinced.
61 against 64, OK! In a community that has got 8,500 (I guess I read it somewhere) members... doesn't seem a substantial figure to me.
Many people suggested a poll on this subject and this request has been ignored so far. Why don't you do that and see the real figure it shows? (Something like: do you want this feature? Are you satisfied with this feature being implemented by proz.com? Do you think it will be useful? Or otherwise... And just put 2 answers for people to vote for "yes" and "no" (the "other" option has been largely discussed in here I guess).
I will probably be convinced this is a good feature for me and others depending on the poll results.
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Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 20:48
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
| Testimonials to win clients | Jun 27, 2006 |
Henry wrote:
... testimonials from satisfied clients are a good thing for good translators.
And negative feedback from unsatisfied clients is a bad thing for good translators.
As has been pointed out, there is a difference between the objective fact of non-payment by an outsourcer, and the subjective evaluation of a translation. There is no guarantee that those providing feedback will be qualified to critique the quality of a translation, and that good translators will not receive undeserved negative feedback.
Testimonials may be a good marketing tool, but no one provides negative testimonials to win clients, and they don't belong on our profile pages.
To those who are ready to accuse me of "fearing" negative feedback, let me point out that I have NOT opted out from receiving feedback.
[Edited at 2006-06-27 19:39]
| | | | MichaelRS (X)
Local time: 05:48
Ivana de Sousa Santos wrote:
I will probably be convinced this is a good feature for me and others depending on the poll results.
You will be?
I'm usually just a Steppenwolf who thinks what I think, regardless of what a lot of people say.
I'm just not quite sure what is going on here. Maybe it's the lack of real competition.
| | | | | A simple question, Henry | Jun 27, 2006 |
Is Proz.com going to collect feedback on members from members’ clients, even on those members who have opted for not being involved in this new feedback feature at any level?
| | | | df49f (X)
France
Local time: 05:48
| satisfaction or not satisfaction | Jun 27, 2006 |
Henry wrote: Terry Thatcher Waltz, Ph.D. wrote:
The "for those who want it" refers to the display of the information. We object to its unauthorized collection and storage. OK. Your emphasis has changed, then, from control of your own profile and choice of marketing approach... to control of information, period. My question: Are you now satisfied on the issue of choice, and control over your profile and marketing choices? It would help me to hear responses not only from Terry, but also from those who objected previously on the grounds of being able to control their profiles and businesses.
hello Henry
I am satisfied that the feature will not be shown anywhere in my profile in any way, shape or form as long as I don't deliberately and voluntarily activate it. Thank you for responding to this concern in a way that should satisfy all parties.
I am however not satisfied that anyone has the possibility of entering unrequested data on me (whether I know of it or not makes no difference, although it would be even worse if I don't!) and that such data would remain hanging out there somewhere in your system and therefore in cyberlimbo... (exact same concern as Terry on this issue): I checked a number of colleagues' new and feedback activated profiles and saw that I could enter unsollicited comments... unless I misunderstood and that possibility has also been removed from my own profile along with all other markings linked to the feedback feature? In which case that issue would be solved as well.
I am one of those who have absolutely no need for this feature and wish absolutely no part in it, though I do understand why it might be of interest to others.
regards - dominique
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MichaelRS (X)
Local time: 05:48
There is no guarantee that those providing feedback will be qualified to critique the quality of a translation, and that good translators will not receive undeserved negative feedback.
Or ... that bad translators will not receive the deserved bad feedback.
Plus ... there's the issue (as yet, apparently, unaddressed) that it would be very easy to get 5 "good" evaluations by registering as an agency under a different IP number (for instance with the program at www.hiproxy.com ).
My evaluation will remain at "0", but I'd be glad to offer a demonstration if desired by the management! (Even a nasty evaluation for the proponents here, which would have to be assessed and then removed).
| | | | df49f (X)
France
Local time: 05:48
| deserved and underserved feedback | Jun 27, 2006 |
MichaelRS wrote: There is no guarantee that those providing feedback will be qualified to critique the quality of a translation, and that good translators will not receive undeserved negative feedback. Or ... that bad translators will not receive the deserved bad feedback.
or... that bad translators will not receive undeserved good feedback from buddies or clueless agencies...
... plus the fact that I can't imagine anyone letting bad feedback (though deserved) appear in their profile!!
...all of which makes the feedback system totally untrustworthy and therefore worthless for an outsourcer searching for high quality and willing to pay high rates
df
[Edited at 2006-06-27 19:53]
| | | | | Thanks, Dominique | Jun 27, 2006 |
df49f wrote: Henry wrote:
My question: Are you now satisfied on the issue of choice, and control over your profile and marketing choices?
It would help me to hear responses not only from Terry, but also from those who objected previously on the grounds of being able to control their profiles and businesses. hello Henry I am satisfied that the feature will not be shown anywhere in my profile in any way, shape or form as long as I don't deliberately and voluntarily activate it. Thank you for responding to this concern in a way that should satisfy all parties.
Thank you, Dominique.
I am however not satisfied that anyone has the possibility of entering unrequested data on me
Yes, that is the next point that Terry has brought up. Before moving on to that, I would like to hear from the others who opposed on the first grounds.
Thanks!
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » New at ProZ.com: Outsourcer "willingness to work again" feedback for translators | Protemos translation business management system | Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
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