Job offers should be more detailed
Thread poster: Anne Pietrasik

Anne Pietrasik
France
Local time: 08:50
English to French
+ ...
Feb 19, 2003

I find some job offers very frustrating due to their lack of details.

\"French/English technical translation\"

In what field ? Aeronautics, Genetic engineering ? Football ? Medicine ? Nuclear Power ?

The same applies to interpreting job offers. Recently, simultaneous translation in Cognac (France). Ok, but on what topic ?

If clients could give us a bit more detail, they would get more targeted and adequate answers.



_________________



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mónica alfonso  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:50
Member (2004)
English to Spanish
+ ...
I agree. Feb 19, 2003

Moreover, sometimes the poster states \'send your detailed CV\', though there is no e-mail address to send it to. A detailed CV pasted on the bidding is not easy to read, I guess.

Perhaps posters could be given a required box for thir e-mail to fill.


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Sonja Tomaskovic  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:50
English to German
+ ...
Moreover ... Feb 19, 2003

... why not apply the BSO system for job postings?



So far, job posters can only choose subjects from the \"old system\". This way, such absolutely confusing postings, such as \"technical translation EN>GE\", can be avoided.



I don\'t know how often I have applied to such postings myself, only to find out that the job poster had something completely different in mind.



Regards,



Sonja


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Jane Lamb-Ruiz  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
More transparency Feb 19, 2003

I have said this before and am saying it again: if bidders have to make known their information why shouldn\'t job posters? I think at a minimum they should provide:

field:Biolgy

type of document: laboratory report

word count:1,800

their agency name: Agency name

address: street and country address

phone number: number



These should be required fields for people posting job notices. And signing up with proz without giving this information is not acceptable. Just an email address is unacceptable also.



It\'s amazing how asking simple questions and getting answers to them helps to weed out shysters.





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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:50
English to German
+ ...
Working on it... Feb 19, 2003

Please note that the ProZ.com moderators are currently working on how to better cover the Jobs area. We\'re aware of the problems, and will ask for your suggestions in due course.



IMO you raised a very valid issue, which we\'ll be able to counter by a closer observation of jobs posted.



Sorry I can\'t be more specific right now - the proposals are still under discussion - but I want to avoid the impression that nothing\'s been done.



Best regards, Ralf


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Lucy Phillips  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:50
Spanish to English
+ ...
rates Feb 19, 2003

I agree with all the above points and also want to raise the issue of rates. I have seen jobs posted at very low rates (I believe a previous forum topic discussed one posting in particular). What do members feel about minimum recommended rates being suggested for those posting jobs? This is a site for professionals, many of whom demonstrate an enormous level of expertise and dedication and it\'s sad to see jobs \'offered\' at well below respectable rates. Translators and writers need to stand up for the right to demand financial recognition for the years of experience, study and training that it takes to be able to produce decent translations.

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Carlos Moreno  Identity Verified
Colombia
Local time: 01:50
English to Spanish
+ ...
Some agencies give no information about them Feb 19, 2003

I have entered some agencies\' pages in Proz, only to find an empty space. Nothing in it. A name (or a pseudonym) and nothing else.



What can you think of an agency which does not tell you who they are?



What can you think of an agency which asks (demands!) that you reduce your rates?



What can you think of an agency which sends you an email replying to your bid, and saying that they pay 0.01 a word? (I have received them!)



Well, I believe these people do not respect the translators. But I DO RESPECT MYSELF. I do not answer to these agencies.



Let them find amateurs who work for peanuts and who can afford not to be paid. If they want cheap personnel, how do you classify the work those agencies deliver?


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Sara Freitas
France
Local time: 08:50
French to English
More information from posters needed Feb 20, 2003

I agree that more information on job posters should be required. An agency recently phoned me with a job (the man said he found my info on ProZ) and I had no more info on them than the name of the person and his e-mail address. He seemed shocked when I asked for the agency\'s full contact info so that I could prepare a written estimate for the job. My rates were fine with him, but after I asked for more info from HIM, he just vanished into thin air.



Needless to say, I didn\'t end up doing that job, and I am sure it was for the best.



I wholeheartedly agree with Jane that asking for basic but complete information from posters will do wonders for weeding out scam artists and agencies operating in bad faith, and I am glad that the moderators are working on it.
[addsig]


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Lesley Clayton
France
Local time: 08:50
French to English
+ ...
Agree 100% with Jane on this... Feb 20, 2003

...and with Anne. How on earth can we, as responsible professionals, bid \'blind\'?

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Steffen Pollex  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:50
English to German
+ ...
No way !!! Feb 20, 2003

[quote]

On 2003-02-19 20:06, Lucy Phillips wrote:

What do members feel about minimum recommended rates being suggested for those posting jobs?\"



IMO,



1. this would lead to \"translators\" who haven\'t got a clue of anything in the language pairs and fields they advertise themselves (the minority but, time and time again proving it by the questions they ask) being put in one row with highly experienced colleagues by being forced by the system to ask for rates only beyond a certain level; you would have to exclude such \"unskilled workers\" from the site in order to maintain the reputation of the rest. This would be impossible technically for you don\'t know the majority of the people behind the profiles. Neither is it (and should it be)the intention of Proz to ban people from the site, except for violating etiquette or some other basic rules, showing offensive attitude or publishing inappropriate stuff. Everyone\'s welcome to contribute to the extent he\'s willing and able to do so. By now, \"non-performers\" are sorted out by competition which, IMO, is by far the best solution.



2. outsourcers would be limited in publicly disclosing their price expectations from the very beginning. Thus, if an outsourcer had lower prices on mind than he would be forced to initially indicate by technical system limitations, the fight would have to start after the bidding is closed. Outsourcers could never be sure to find translators for the price they are willing to pay. In return, there would be a great deal of uncertainty among the translators whether they get the rate indicated in a bit or not. The situation would not get better but worse in result: transparancy on the site would suffer significantly which can\'t be good. By the current system, the outsourcer makes a price offer, you decide whether to work for this price or not. Therefore, both will find each other.



3. Translators from regions with traditionally lower market rates would be limited in their access to the site and opportunities to bid for jobs, in particular. But isn\'t ith that peers in these countries (like Russia, Ukraine, India, China to name a few) who break their back for 2 cents a word and, may be, just do not have the 100 buck to pay for Plstinum, also are valuable members of this community abd should have the right to use all the benefits of membership, first of all, of making themselves heard and getting a job time and time again again?! This negative effect could only be smoothened by somewhat ranging the areas our dear coolleagues are located by something like \"average market rates\" and attributing these rates to groups of translators from certain regions. This would require tremendeous efforts in \"market research\" and still not bring \"justice for all\" which currently is being maintained best by a free market for demand and supply of translators\' services.



The way you suggest would add confusion, make the bidding system senseless to some extent and, moreover, not add any benefits: both sides would become more administered and limited in their opportunities, for the price of a huge load of extra work for the site staff, that\'s all.



Leave it like it is and work on the technical issues to be improved instead of inventing more and more instruments of protectionism. I really wonder if you don\'t have anything else to do than trying to protect yourself from the invisible \"competitor\" from God knows where who works for two cents instead of your 10. What way would it affect you sitting in the UK?!



Let translators decide how much they want to earn and outsourcers hoew much they are ready to pay. Let them find each other on this platform, leave it with the result they were coming for and, hopely, return again and again.



Salem

Steffen

[ This Message was edited by:on2003-02-20 20:55]


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Shruti Nagar
India
Local time: 12:20
English to Hindi
+ ...
I absolutely agree with you. It should be made necassary for job posters to give basic informations. Apr 9, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-02-19 19:15, nonogogo wrote:

I have said this before and am saying it again: if bidders have to make known their information why shouldn\'t job posters? I think at a minimum they should provide:

field:Biolgy

type of document: laboratory report

word count:1,800

their agency name: Agency name

address: street and country address

phone number: number



These should be required fields for people posting job notices. And signing up with proz without giving this information is not acceptable. Just an email address is unacceptable also.



It\'s amazing how asking simple questions and getting answers to them helps to weed out shysters.







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