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Another question about Certified Pro status
Thread poster: Chris S

Chris S  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Apr 12

How can a translator working into English be a "Certified Pro" when they write things like this in their profile:


(Removed because I didn't realise it would identify the offending translator; suffice to say said translator has a very poor grasp of English grammar despite explicitly claiming the opposite)


How on Earth did a translator with such poor English pass the vetting process?

Setting the bar that low makes a mockery of the whole programme.

[Edited at 2017-04-12 11:39 GMT]

[Edited at 2017-04-12 12:36 GMT]

[Edited at 2017-04-12 12:36 GMT]


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esperantisto  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:25
Member (2006)
English to Russian
+ ...
He or she… Apr 12

…could have applied in a language pair other than English to XXX or XXX to English.

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Chris S  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes, but... Apr 12

esperantisto wrote:

…could have applied in a language pair other than English to XXX or XXX to English.


Good point.

But in that case surely a Certified Pro should be required (1) to state which pair they're certified in, and (2) not to work in other pairs where they haven't a clue.

Either way, it doesn't make me feel like it's worth participating.


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Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 06:25
Member
English to Italian
+ ...
Well... Apr 12

Chris S wrote:

esperantisto wrote:

…could have applied in a language pair other than English to XXX or XXX to English.


Good point.

But in that case surely a Certified Pro should be required (1) to state which pair they're certified in, and (2) not to work in other pairs where they haven't a clue.

Either way, it doesn't make me feel like it's worth participating.


In the specific case you mention, their "certified" pair actually is XX>EN...


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Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:25
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Pair(s) in which translator is certified should be indicated Apr 12

This has come up before.

There is a woman claiming to offer services in at least half a dozen pairs who has (as far as I know) certification in a single pair.

This same person has asked a total of over 8000 questions on the Kudoz forums.

I cannot imagine that it would be terribly difficult to modify the system so as to make clear the pair(s) in which a translator has the "C". Why not simply place the seal next to the pair(s) rather than the name?


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Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 06:25
Member
English to Italian
+ ...
Mouse Apr 12

Robert Forstag wrote:

This has come up before.

There is a woman claiming to offer services in at least half a dozen pairs who has (as far as I know) certification in a single pair.

This same person has asked a total of over 8000 questions on the Kudoz forums.

I cannot imagine that it would be terribly difficult to modify the system so as to make clear the pair(s) in which a translator has the "C". Why not simply place the seal next to the pair(s) rather than the name?


In addition to being specified in our profiles, you just have to hover your mouse over the P badge to see the pair(s) the badge refers to.


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Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:25
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
It is indeed specified Apr 12

Other than the mouse over the red P, this is what is visibile (me for example)

Capture


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Susana E. Cano Méndez  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 06:25
Member
French to Spanish
+ ...
Ok Apr 12

Robert Forstag wrote:

Why not simply place the seal next to the pair(s) rather than the name?


This is a good idea indeed!


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Arianne Farah  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 00:25
Member (2008)
English to French
I second that suggestion! Apr 12

A particular translator working in my language pair with the Pro badge (obviously for another language pair since my pair are his B & C languages) has popped up with alarming regularity over the last 8 years; the work ranged from plain horrible (inventing words, not even using spellcheck - for those who speak French, think 'un scientiste' instead of 'un scientifique' throughout the text in a huge translation in the health & sanitation field - true story) to completely fraudulent (good translation from a translator, came back from editing with a few dozen markups - I was QC - ALL markups introduced errors - after conferring with the PM - started the edit from scratch and had another QC lined up - my last step was to run Antidote - a spelling & grammar checker - lo and behold ALL the false positives that it generated were the exact same as those from the first editor - he had quite literally run the software, clicked 'accept all', called it a day and submitted the text as edited) - I found out it was the same person because I had been put in collaboration with him for the first project and I saw his name in the document property field in the second project - I ran into him several more times, each time with a different agency, because his profile is so irresistible (his rates are a third of mine, and he's a certified Pro - too good to be true, right?), though he never sticks around for long.


After a few frustrating years of this person popping up, I wrote to ProZ about revoking their credentials, since that person was not only incompetent, but fraudulent, but never got a response. Now if the credentials were only applied to his first pair, I wouldn't have had to clean up this person's mess year after year.



[Edited at 2017-04-12 15:03 GMT]


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Chris S  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Good idea - but not a solution Apr 12

Robert Forstag wrote:

Why not simply place the seal next to the pair(s) rather than the name?


This is a good idea - but it doesn't solve the problem I raised, namely the seal being awarded to those who are clearly incompetent, so undermining its value.


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Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:25
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
There really is no practical solution Apr 12

Chris S wrote:

Robert Forstag wrote:

Why not simply place the seal next to the pair(s) rather than the name?


This is a good idea - but it doesn't solve the problem I raised, namely the seal being awarded to those who are clearly incompetent, so undermining its value.



Well, it is one small helpful thing that can be done, that would be easy for this site to do, and something that this site would likely not object to doing on economic grounds.

But alas, I agree that it is not a solution.

In the case you indicated, it looks like the credential held by the person is illegitimate. And if you can show evidence of this person's appalling English not only on her profile, but in forum posts and Kudoz posts, then I think you would have a well-nigh unassailable case that this person has obtained her credentials fraudulently (presumably by having had someone take the Cert-P test for her).

But I doubt that this site will want to wade into such murky waters.

The only foolproof way to protect the integrity of such a program would be to administer the test in real time through a videoconferencing system in which some third party vouched for the examinee being alone, and in which a review of the browsing history of the examinee during the exam time were possible (i.e., to assure that they were not being fed the translation by an accomplice during the administration).

Again, and because this would be costly and have no obvious financial payoff, I don't think this site would be interested in implementing such a procedure.

On the positive side, I cannot say that I have noticed anyone working in my own language pair (apart from the person I previously referenced - and on second thought I think she was stripped of the badge) who seems to possess the credential illegitimately.

One thing that those who have the badge can do to protect its integrity is to carefully grade the tests that come their way. I myself have not found more than 1 in 5 of the tests I grade to be worthy of a passing score. (And we are not talking nitpicking over commas or less-than-ideal word choices, but multiple major errors in the translation of a short passage).

But again, if someone is underhanded enough to actually get someone to do the test translation for them, then there really is no way of detecting this under the current system.

[Edited at 2017-04-12 17:42 GMT]


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