Backlashing of a wrong "disagree" to the disagreeing peer.
Thread poster: Harry Bornemann

Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
May 27, 2003

This could be achieved automatically in the cases where the disagreed answer is selected to be the best one or agreed to be a right one in the end.
This would help only in some cases, but that would be better than nothing at all against a wrong (just anger-based) "disagree".


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two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 08:04
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
Can you picture this? May 28, 2003

Harry_B wrote:

This could be achieved automatically in the cases where the disagreed answer is selected to be the best one or agreed to be a right one in the end.
This would help only in some cases, but that would be better than nothing at all against a wrong (just anger-based) "disagree".


An ignorant asket gets an ignorant answer. You disagree it, but the wrong answer is chosen anyway. Not only is your wise disagreement ignored, but you get punished on top of it.

You assume that the asker will pick the right answer. This is not always the case.
Regards,
Enrique


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xxxSimplyMe
English to German
Wrong way, Harry... ;) May 28, 2003

The point is that an agree has quite different reasons:

1. Someone agrees because he knows that the suggestion is correct.
2. Someone agrees because there were already some others who agreed.

As an example:
Just yesterday there was a case (it was called something like "whole sentence, please" - but has been erased.
The phrase dealt with collecting clothes, a part of the question was "... size ~48 ...".

The suggesting person translated this as "Größe 48" - und did not take the "~" into account. The correct answer had been: "BIS Größe 48".

I counted about 7 to 10 agrees to a wrong suggestion.
I placed a neutral comment and explained why.
The result: More agrees to a wrong answer.

See what I mean ? - It's not knowledge that often counts when it comes to agrees. It's the typical human habit of just copying others without thinking.

So if you're the only one to see a mistake and to tell others about - you would get punished for helping.

That's why I do not agree to your suggestion.


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I am satisfied with the best possible improvement May 28, 2003

two2tango wrote:
..
You assume that the asker will pick the right answer. This is not always the case.
..

You - on the contrary - assume that the asker will pick a wrong answer.
I think this to happen more rarely so the benefit can be seen in the long run.
(You were right if they would pick the answers really randomly.)


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pidzej  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 13:04
Polish to English
+ ...
got a "disagree" of late? so what? May 28, 2003

it was not addressed to you in the first place but to the asker "to help the asker decide". and this is what peer comments are for, not for pampering your ego. period. likewise, i will never understand why some answerers thank peers for their "agrees" - my agrees, again, go to the asker, not the answerer. did i get something wrong?

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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
No impact of agrees and disagrees after closing of question? May 28, 2003

SimplyMe wrote:
The point is that an agree has quite different reasons:
1. Someone agrees because he knows that the suggestion is correct.
2. Someone agrees because there were already some others who agreed.
...
The other point is that a disagree has quite different reasons, too:
1. Someone disagrees because he knows that the suggestion is substantially wrong.
2. Someone disagrees because he just feels like kicking (under any pretext).

To pidzej: I hope you will never loose your 100% idealism.

So after all, our points seem to imply that there shouldn't be any impact of agrees and disagrees after a question has been closed, not even a statistical one.
Do you prefer this?

[Edited at 2003-05-28 21:19]


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Edward Vreeburg  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 13:04
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
funny things going on with Kudos May 29, 2003

I even had the following problem, can;t remember which word it was, but let's say "apple". I translated it to Dutch, so my reply was "appel". Now somebody else posted an answer in English, saying it's "apple".
Guess which answer was awarded the points??
- and this is not a single incident...

This way Kudos is not very stimulating...


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two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 08:04
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
What computers can't do May 29, 2003

Harry_B wrote:

This would help only in some cases, but that would be better than nothing at all against a wrong (just anger-based) "disagree".


A computer can't detect "anger based" disagrees, so I don't think you can implement an automatic system to fight them.

If the asker picks the right answer, then a disagree on it would be irrelevant.

If the asker picks the wrong one, then a system-punishment should not be based on a wrong decision.

An anger-based problem in KudoZ should be better addressed by the moderators. They have judgement, while the computers don't.

Enrique


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
What does the system do? May 29, 2003

two2tango wrote:
A computer can't detect "anger based" disagrees, so I don't think you can implement an automatic system to fight them.

If the asker picks the right answer, then a disagree on it would be irrelevant.
The potential benefit is based on the assumption that the askers pick the right answers more often than the wrong ones, and on the assumption that there is any effect of a disagree after a question is closed.
If the asker picks the wrong one, then a system-punishment should not be based on a wrong decision.
I did not necessarily mean a punishment, I just wondered which effect they are having or will have or should have.
An anger-based problem in KudoZ should be better addressed by the moderators. They have judgement, while the computers don't.
This is only one kind of wrong disagrees which I mentioned and I would bother the concerned moderators rather with more serious nuisances.
BR
Harry

[Edited at 2003-05-29 23:32]


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two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 08:04
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
What are we talking about? May 30, 2003

Harry_B wrote:

two2tango wrote:
If the asker picks the wrong one, then a system-punishment should not be based on a wrong decision.


I did not necessarily mean a punishment, I just wondered which effect they are having or will have or should have.


I may be slower than usual today, but I feel it would be easier to evaluate this suggestion if you could provide a clear definition, in concrete terms, of what you mean when you say "Backlashing of a wrong "disagree" to the disagreeing peer".

EC


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Svetlana
English to Russian
+ ...
exactly. I could't quite understand what is actually meant by "backlashing" here. Jun 1, 2003

two2tango wrote:

Harry_B wrote:

two2tango wrote:
If the asker picks the wrong one, then a system-punishment should not be based on a wrong decision.


I did not necessarily mean a punishment, I just wondered which effect they are having or will have or should have.


I may be slower than usual today, but I feel it would be easier to evaluate this suggestion if you could provide a clear definition, in concrete terms, of what you mean when you say "Backlashing of a wrong "disagree" to the disagreeing peer".

EC


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writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
if the wrong answer is picked, so be it Jun 20, 2003

I just spent 10 minutes researching a Flemish legal question, found it, found the French equivalent, double-checked, it fitted the 2 word context graciously provided by Asker and the answer before me, totally out of context, was chosen with 'thanks for the quick response'. Not even time for peer grading. My theory is that those people end up giving me work because those kind of totally incorrect answers tend to cause trouble when they arrive at end user. I removed my answer - why should he be able to check back, since a speedy answer was the criterion?
Helpful and instructive peer comments, positive or negative, are also shots in the dark when the Asker has absolutely no idea which way to look. Too many now use ProZ as a job tool instead of a job aid.


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