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Moderators can answer questions in the Kudoz combination they moderate
Thread poster: Elodie Bonnafous

Elodie Bonnafous  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 14:36
Member (2009)
German to French
+ ...
Jun 18, 2009

Do you find it normal ?

I think this tempts many translators to give them "agrees" they wouln't have given if the answerer were not also the moderator of the question.

As a result, the results are distorted and the asker often selects a totally unappropriate answer just because it has the most agrees.

In the end, other translators/answerers are disadvantaged, and the asker has chosen an unappropriate answer.

Is this fair ?

Wouldn't be more fair not to allow moderators to answer the Kudoz questions they moderate ?


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Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:36
Italian to English
+ ...
I don't think it's a problem Jun 18, 2009

Some past Kudoz moderators I know of were also among the greatest experts in some of the fields in the language pairs they moderated. To have barred them from answering questions would have meant losing out on their extensive knowledge and experience. The kudoz glossaries are by far the richer for their contributions.

I have absolutely no objection to Kudoz moderators answering questions in the fields/pairs they moderate - I would in fact strongly object if they were barred from doing so.


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Elodie Bonnafous  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 14:36
Member (2009)
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
yes indeed, Jun 18, 2009

that's a point I hadn't thought about, and you're definitely right.

But maybe they shouldn't moderate their own Kudoz combinations then ?

Indeniably, other answerers and translators react differently to an answer if it as been proposed by the moderator.

I constantly see the same problem in my own combinations, one precise moderator allways receives all agrees without any consideration on the quality of his answer. I don't really mind about the Kudoz points, but in the end the asker selects a totally unappropriate answer.

There is a concrete imbalance between the moderator/answerer and the other answerers, and it is unfair and misleading.


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Iza Szczypka  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 20:36
English to Polish
+ ...
Oh, gee.... :( Jun 18, 2009

I've never realised that being a moderator makes me a source of such an authority that my answers might attract agrees solely due to my role, not the merits. I must reconsider the agrees I've got for my answers to regular KudoZ questions - perhaps people are simply toadying to a moderator?
However, on second thoughts: apology to all the great folks in my language pair for even a split-second doubt in their common sense and self-esteem.
P.S. I haven't answered a single GBK question so far. Now I don't think I will.


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Ulrike Kraemer
Germany
Local time: 20:36
English to German
+ ...
Which language combinations would you suggest they should moderate? Jun 18, 2009

Elodie Bonnafous wrote:

But maybe they shouldn't moderate their own Kudoz combinations then ?


Imagine a translator working from EN to DE being the moderator in, say, FR to IT because he or she is barred from his/her own language pairs. He/she doesn't speak French and doesn't speak Italian. This would never work, would it?

In my view, it is a prerequisite that moderators are experts in the language pairs they are moderating, and as being a moderator is not a paid job (but entirely voluntary), I think it's only FAIR that they are allowed to answer questions in their pair(s).

Similar to what Marie-Hélène says, the moderators in my pairs are among the best translators in their fields. Instead of wanting to bar them from answering, I'm grateful that they are there to share their knowledge with us.


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 20:36
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
We are all humans, aren't we? Jun 18, 2009

So why do you want to discriminate moderators?
Having been KudoZ moderator myself for eight years or so I must say I would never have been it so long, if someone would have forbidden me to answer questions in my language pair...
And BTW, my language pair for moderating was German-Polish. My working language pairs are German-Polish and Polish-German. Which language pair should I moderate then in your opinion to be allowed to answer questions in my working pairs? Spanish to French maybe? That would be perfect, as I do not speak and understand a word in Spanish and in French.
A neccessary prerequisite to moderate anything is a good command of a language in which you moderate. As for KudoZ the language knowledge in BOTH source and target MUST be perfect, as otherwise you can't judge the KudoZ according to KudoZ rules.

Best regards
Jerzy


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Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 20:36
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Au contraire! Jun 18, 2009

LittleBalu wrote:

In my view, it is a prerequisite that moderators are experts in the language pairs they are moderating, and as being a moderator is not a paid job (but entirely voluntary), I think it's only FAIR that they are allowed to answer questions in their pair(s).

Similar to what Marie-Hélène says, the moderators in my pairs are among the best translators in their fields. Instead of wanting to bar them from answering, I'm grateful that they are there to share their knowledge with us.


Exactly!


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Noni Gilbert
Spain
Local time: 20:36
Spanish to English
+ ...
Never even thought to look if they are moderators or not Jun 18, 2009

It's the quality of the answer which will attract my agree, neutral or disagree. Period.

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Sylvain Leray  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:36
Member (2003)
German to French
Do you mean... Jun 18, 2009

Elodie Bonnafous wrote:


I constantly see the same problem in my own combinations, one precise moderator allways receives all agrees without any consideration on the quality of his answer.


Does this mean that the people who participate in this pair have absolutely no linguistic ability and blindly trust their moderator? I see no reason why they would do so: which benefit would they get from doing that??
It is clearly stated in the site rules that the moderator are in no way a linguistic authority. Kudoz moderators are there to ensure that the site rules are enforced (duplicate questions removed, correct classification of questions, etc.), but they are translators like all the others, and thus fully entitled to answer or ask questions.
I really don't see why people would give "agrees" to the moderator rather than to any other answerer.


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Aniello Scognamiglio  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 20:36
English to German
+ ...
Exactly! Jun 18, 2009

Sylvain Leray wrote:

It is clearly stated in the site rules that the moderator are in no way a linguistic authority. Kudoz moderators are there to ensure that the site rules are enforced, but they are translators like all the others, and thus fully entitled to answer or ask questions.
I really don't see why people would give "agrees" to the moderator rather than to any other answerer.


Apart from that I have one question: How are KudoZ moderators chosen?
What are the prerequisites or requirements?

[Edited at 2009-06-18 11:39 GMT]


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Giuliana Buscaglione  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 20:36
Member (2001)
German to Italian
+ ...
My 2 cents as an ex-mod Jun 18, 2009

Hi,

whenever I answered a question in the pairs I used to moderate (and I have done that for over 9 years), I considered myself a KudoZer and so did all my SC members, i.e. they had no problem distributing neutrals & disagrees if needed

For sure, in each KudoZ I acted either as a KudoZer or as a moderator, meaning that I called for a fellow moderator, if a particular KudoZ developed into a moderation case after my answer was entered, never ever mixed the roles. Maybe this was the reason why my SC members never had a problem voicing their opinions freely.

Giuliana


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writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
Why restrict Kudoz? Jun 18, 2009

Officially, moderators are not language authorities (and cannot act as such), which for Kudoz purposes means they are (theoretically) the same as everyone else.
The role of the moderator was recently redefined (see past forum postings) and now moderators are just site policemen, there to enforce all the site rules and take action against and/or report any/all offenders.
I don't see how their participation (or not) in Kudoz makes any difference at all, so why target this relatively small group of individuals?
My €0.02.


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Elodie Bonnafous  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 14:36
Member (2009)
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
This Jun 18, 2009

is not the point.

I never said or even thought that moderators or any precise moderator abuse their roles as moderators or mixe the roles.
They are PROZ-authorities and as far as I'm concerned, I have never seen any abusive behaviour whatsoever.

I'm not intending to attack moderators in any way, and I understand that all moderators who have reacted to this article obviously can not agree with my point of view, but I am curious to see what "normal" members think about it.

As Iza suggested, I'd rather say that some answerers are toadying to a moderator and give their agrees rather to a moderator than to another more appropriate answer.

I think the problem lies by the answerers and NOT by the moderators.


[Edited at 2009-06-18 11:59 GMT]


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Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:36
Italian to English
+ ...
Why punish the moderators because some answerers are reacting inappropriately? Jun 18, 2009

Elodie Bonnafous wrote:

is not the point.

I never said or even thought that moderators or any precise moderator abuse their roles as moderators or mixe the roles.

As Iza suggested, I'd rather say that some answerers are toadying to a moderator and give their agrees rather to a moderator as to another more appropriate answer.

I'm not intending to attack moderators in any way, and I understand that all moderators who have reacted to this article obviously can not agree with my point of view, but I am curious to see what "normal" members think about it.


That's what you're proposing - a restriction on moderators because, through no fault of the mods, some answerers (in your opinion) are dazzled by that "moderator" status into giving inappropriate agrees.

It really strikes me as being a non-issue, although of course it's true we work in different language pairs, so I'm not aware of what's going on in your area.


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Ulrike Kraemer
Germany
Local time: 20:36
English to German
+ ...
Only 2 moderators have responded Jun 18, 2009

Elodie Bonnafous wrote:

I understand that all moderators who have reacted to this article obviously can not agree with my point of view, but I am curious to see what "normal" members think about it.


Well, out of those who have responded so far, there were only two moderators, namely Iza and Sylvain. The rest of us are "normal" members, no?

I certainly haven't seen any of the behaviour you've described in my language pairs. When our moderators answer questions and get many agrees, it's because they post good suggestions, not because they are moderators.


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