Single section for scam threads? (Staff: forum created)
Thread poster: Charlie Bavington
Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:04
French to English
Jun 22, 2010

I wonder, would it be a good idea to have a separate subsection called, off the top of my head, "Scam"? It seems to me that:
a) hardly a day goes by without someone starting a thread about an email they have received,
and
b) there is no consensus on where these splendid and informative outpourings should be placed.

To be fair, they are usually somewhere under the main 'Business' section, but after that, they go in business issues or money matters.... both of which titles apply, I suppose. Or elsewhere.

Clearly this is not an issue likely to go away; one hopes, if only to alleviate the tedium, that the perps will become more imaginative, not less, and it just seems reasonable (to me) to shove it all together in one place (as happened with voice recognition as its profile rose).

(If you think this is a good idea, please send me your bank details, a photocopy of your passport, and your mother's maiden name. If you don't, likewise but include your postal address and social security details. I'll keep a score, and let Henry know the result.)

[Edited at 2010-06-22 09:02 GMT]

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2010-06-22 12:36 GMT]


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Jared Tabor
Local time: 09:04
SITE STAFF
A section of the wiki was set aside to document this information in one place Jun 22, 2010

Hello Charlie,

A section of the ProZ.com Wiki was set aside for documenting false job offers and other types of scams just recently. It can be found here: http://wiki.proz.com/wiki/index.php/Detecting_and_reacting_to_false_job_offers_and_other_scams

Jared


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Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:04
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
Fair enough, but... Jun 22, 2010

... we have wiki entries on plenty of other topics that recur on the forum - invoicing is one that springs immediately to mind. So we know that having a wiki on the subject doesn't mean it is not a subject for discussion on the forum.

And so, if it is an allowable subject for discussion, without threads being immediately locked with a redirect to the wiki page (which would be a possible solution for many topics, quite frankly), I am merely suggesting we keep the discussion in one appropriately-named section. 'Tis all.


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Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 13:04
English to Czech
+ ...
Absolutely Jun 22, 2010

Hello Charlie,
you have my vote on this. In fact, I thought exactly the same this morning when I was browsing the recent posts and saw that perhaps a half of them was about possible scams. A new forum on this topic wouldn't hurt.


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bohy  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:04
English to French
+ ...
I agree with Charlie Jun 22, 2010

Recently, I received a scam email, just slightly more clever than usual, posted a warning on Proz forum mentionning the name of the sender (it was NOT a business name, and of course not on Blue Board). It was so quickly locked and removed by Proz that I wondered if they are not simply willing to foster all bad practices on earth (in particular scams and very low rates). Also, I wonder if they give any protection to our addresses, considering the very high number of junk emails that I receive...

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Niraja Nanjundan  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:34
German to English
Off topic Jun 22, 2010

Charlie Bavington wrote:
(If you think this is a good idea, please send me your bank details, a photocopy of your passport, and your mother's maiden name. If you don't, likewise but include your postal address and social security details. I'll keep a score, and let Henry know the result.)


I think you should either join the British immigration service, or be employed by ProZ.com for screening people who apply to be admitted to the Certified PRO network

[Edited at 2010-06-22 11:59 GMT]

[Edited at 2010-06-22 12:03 GMT]


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Alejandro Cavalitto
Local time: 09:04
SITE STAFF
The names used on scam emails can be the names of actual, innocent, people Jun 22, 2010

bohy wrote:

Recently, I received a scam email, just slightly more clever than usual, posted a warning on Proz forum mentionning the name of the sender (it was NOT a business name, and of course not on Blue Board). It was so quickly locked and removed by Proz that I wondered if they are not simply willing to foster all bad practices on earth (in particular scams and very low rates). Also, I wonder if they give any protection to our addresses, considering the very high number of junk emails that I receive...


Hello bohy,

I just wanted to point out that possible scams can be reported in the forums as long as the posts are in line with forum rule #8 . In other words, you can post the emails you received or describe the situation, but no names should be mentioned.

The purpose of avoiding naming names in a case like this is to prevent possible issues with libel, since the names used in these cases are not always made-up and can be the names of actual, innocent, persons. In general the messages themselves are sufficient to warn other translators.

Also, email addresses in profiles are private as long as they were not included a free text area, like the "About me". Users can be contacted through profile messages, which were designed to allow site members to receive messages while maintaining the privacy of their email addresses.

If you are receiving junk email through your profile messages, you may like to subject them to vetting by site staff. That should filter junk email out. You can specify this from the "Email preferences" section of your profile's "Settings" tab.

Hope this explains!

Best regards,
Alejandro


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Teresa Borges
Portugal
Local time: 12:04
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
I do agree with Charlie Jun 22, 2010

You have my vote on this.

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Paul Dixon  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 10:04
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Yes, you have my vote Jun 22, 2010

I think it would be great to have a section for scam threads, where people could talk about scams received. I get two or three Nigerian scams every week, sometimes more, and would like to have the opportunity to show them to ProZians as general warnings. Most of them are not sent through ProZ but I still think that, when it comes to scams, it's definitely a case of better safe than sorry.

My current policy is only to mention scams when obtained through ProZ (except in rare cases), for the very reason that inundating the forum with scam information could, indeed, distract translators looking for other issues.

A scam thread could also be a point for tell-tale scam signs, such as the following which spring to mind:

From the desk of Dr ...

[name of a bank], Burkina Faso (nothing against the country, but it is strange that the country and the name of one particular bank is common in scam e-mails), and so on...

So yes, this definitely has my vote too.

[Edited at 2010-06-22 12:33 GMT]


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Jared Tabor
Local time: 09:04
SITE STAFF
Forum created Jun 22, 2010

Hi all,

I've created the forum, here: http://www.proz.com/forum/946 . I'll be moving some of the more recent threads on this over shortly.

I'd like to encourage the use of this forum in conjunction with the wiki article I mention above, in the interest of building on a central area containing information that translators can refer to in order to help detect and react to false job offers and other scams.

Note that, as specified in the forum's description, this forum should not be used to report spam or scams received via ProZ.com email to staff-- the fastest and most efficient way of having that handled is by using the support system, or the "Report spam" link contained at the bottom of email sent through ProZ.com. Thanks!

Jared


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Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:04
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, Jun 22, 2010

(Previous comment removed - the location is 100% appropriate)

and just thanks for quick response



[Edited at 2010-06-22 12:44 GMT]


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Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 13:04
English to Czech
+ ...
That was quick Jun 22, 2010

Thank you, Jared. Your promt action is appreciated.

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Nesrin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:04
English to Arabic
+ ...
Location Jun 22, 2010

Charlie Bavington wrote:

(Previous comment removed - the location is 100% appropriate)

and just thanks for quick response



I'm not sure what Charlie's previous comment on the location was, but aren't scams usually related to Business Issues, rather than Technical Issues (a location more suitable for virus/security alerts)?


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Enrique Cavalitto
Local time: 09:04
SITE STAFF
Location in the technical area Jun 22, 2010

Nesrin wrote:

Charlie Bavington wrote:

(Previous comment removed - the location is 100% appropriate)

and just thanks for quick response



I'm not sure what Charlie's previous comment on the location was, but aren't scams usually related to Business Issues, rather than Technical Issues (a location more suitable for virus/security alerts)?


Hi Nesrin,

The new forum was located in the technical issues area because the identification and handling of scam attempts are basically related to the safe use of Internet, together with the use of anti-virus, firewalls, etc.

Some scams (for instance the "advance payment" ones) are related to translation business issues but this does not apply to others, such as the classic Nigerian scam, the dating scam, etc.

Regards,
Enrique


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Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:04
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
Yes, and indeed no Jun 22, 2010

Nesrin wrote:

Charlie Bavington wrote:

(Previous comment removed - the location is 100% appropriate)

and just thanks for quick response



I'm not sure what Charlie's previous comment on the location was, but aren't scams usually related to Business Issues, rather than Technical Issues (a location more suitable for virus/security alerts)?


That was the thrust of my comment. I removed it because I thought it was more important, for me personally, given that my original post was in fact initially hidden for having a flippant title and I've probably given the mods enough gip over the years, to give priority to showing some gratitude rather than wondering about the location of the section.

IMHO, you could make a watertight case for either location. There is one well-known scam artist/fraudster who operates over the phone, for instance. I think that all we can hope for is that if non-technical or non-Internet scams are discussed in the "scam" section under Technology, they are either allowed to stay or, if it happens often enough, the section could be moved to Business.


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