We should ask Proz to eliminate email offer submissions
Thread poster: Alex Lago

Alex Lago  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:20
Member (2009)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Sep 15, 2010

A while back we all had a big deal about changing the way Proz jobs are posted, it all got started because a bunch of members decided they'd had enough with the low rates, thanks to them and to proz's willingness to listen to its members there were major changes to the way jobs are posted on Proz.

However unfortunately and as was predictable this has not achieved the objective sought by that initial group of "rebellious" members, ie, getting the rates to go up.

Case in point, I just saw a job offer in Proz for "3,000 to 5,000 words per day of extremely straightforward contet" for $0.03. I don't know if they'll get any takers, you have to send an email to offer your services.

And this is what brings me to the title of my post, I am not sure if any measure will get the rates to go up, it is very doubtful, but if we don't try it certainly won't happen, so we at least have to try.

One way would be knowing how many people actually answer the offer and more importantly what these people have answered.

I have two measures to propose which I would like other members to comment on:

1- I propose eliminating the possibility of clients using an email as a way for members to answer offers posted in Proz, all job offer replies would have to be posted through Proz, that way we can see how many people have answered. I don't see a problem in making people receive the offers through Proz, after all they posted them here.

2- Obviously just this information would not really tell us much as we would simply know how many people had answered but we wouldn't know what they had answered, I think the rate proposed by the client should be compared with the rate offered by the member to see if it is equal, higher or lower than the rate the client offered and we should see the following information in the job screen:

Total offers
Offers above rate
Offers equal rate
Offer higher rate

It is just a thought I had now when I saw this job offer, let me know what you think.


 

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:20
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I don't much care any more. Sep 15, 2010

I've never ever had a reply to any of my responses to any of these "job offers" and I often wonder who gets them, and at what price. I've long since given up responding to them, since it's obvious they're looking for the lowest price - not the best translation.

 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 05:20
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
How will you enforce it? Sep 15, 2010

Alex Lago wrote:
1- I propose eliminating the possibility of clients using an email as a way for members to answer offers posted in Proz, all job offer replies would have to be posted through Proz, that way we can see how many people have answered. I don't see a problem in making people receive the offers through Proz, after all they posted them here.


You'd have to find a way to prevent outsourcers from asking translators to contact them via e-mail.

2- Obviously just this information would not really tell us much as we would simply know how many people had answered but we wouldn't know what they had answered, I think the rate proposed by the client should be compared with the rate offered by the member to see if it is equal, higher or lower than the rate the client offered and we should see the following information in the job screen:

Total offers
Offers above rate
Offers equal rate
Offer higher rate


1. What can you learn from this information?
2. I'll wager that less than 10% of translators will offer a rate higher than that of the outsourcer.

Also:

The only way ProZ.com can gather this sort of information is if the reply form allows only simple rate information. What ProZ.com will be doing, therefore, is perpetuate the belief (also among new translators) that it is abnormal to offer a rate that does not fit in nicely with the standard per-unit rate idea, or that one should not try to offer multiple rates based on multiple scenarios.

In effect, you'd be taking power away from the translators, making it more difficult for them to taylor their responses, and making it more difficult for them to differentiate their services from the hoipolloi.




[Edited at 2010-09-15 16:18 GMT]


 

Patricia Veghelyi
Austria
Local time: 05:20
Member (2007)
English to German
+ ...
Ads and rates Sep 15, 2010

So I answered several Proz ads and got jobs! And this new function with show/hide helps a lot, sometimes you can see the proposed min/max rates of the companies.
If you already know the system and unfortunately, the economic crisis, with some experience you can quote quite good rates.
In some fields, prices are already at least a bit higher than e.g., a year ago.
It is not possible to get all jobs, c'est la vie!
And Proz has a function where you can check rates for your language pairs, not for a special job offer, but in general (hourly, per word etc.).

I don't really care, if somebody is offering a too low price, I don't answer them and look for the next opportunity...
If somebody is trying to negotiate a too low price after I got the job, then I try to negotiate, but even then it is possible to say no.


 

Alex Lago  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:20
Member (2009)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Reply Sep 15, 2010

Samuel Murray wrote:

You'd have to find a way to prevent outsourcers from asking translators to contact them via e-mail.


Don't see the problem here if you say people aren't allowed to do it most people won't those who do would be policed by the members themselves.

Samuel Murray wrote:
1. What can you learn from this information?
2. I'll wager that less than 10% of translators will offer a rate higher than that of the outsourcer.


You can learn how many people are willing to work at these rates and I think it would give us a small insight into the market.
I would certainly hope that in the particular case I was referring to ($0.03 per word) more than 10% of people would be above the outsoucer's rate.

Samuel Murray wrote:
Also:

The only way ProZ.com can gather this sort of information is if the reply form allows only simple rate information. What ProZ.com will be doing, therefore, is perpetuate the belief (also among new translators) that it is abnormal to offer a rate that does not fit in nicely with the standard per-unit rate idea, or that one should not try to offer multiple rates based on multiple scenarios.

In effect, you'd be taking power away from the translators, making it more difficult for them to taylor their responses, and making it more difficult for them to differentiate their services from the hoipolloi.


I must admit I had not thought of this aspect probably because I don't offer alternate types of rates, I think this is a very good point, however I was referring to outsourcers who post a price therefore I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that they expect a reply based on the rate scheme they have chosen. This could only apply if the client has proposed a price and to do so they would have chosen a reference frame, so I assume (again perhaps incorrectly) all replies will be based on that same reference frame.


 

Krzysztof Kajetanowicz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 05:20
English to Polish
+ ...
Ditto. Sep 16, 2010

Tom in London wrote:

I've never ever had a reply to any of my responses to any of these "job offers" and I often wonder who gets them, and at what price. I've long since given up responding to them, since it's obvious they're looking for the lowest price - not the best translation.


Agree. We all know how Don Quijote ended up. If two parties are willing to make a low-price deal, there's nothing you can do (at best, hide your head in sand by removing those deals from proz.com).

[Edited at 2010-09-16 06:49 GMT]


 

Suzan Hamer  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 05:20
English
+ ...
Ditto. Sep 16, 2010

Tom in London wrote:

I've never ever had a reply to any of my responses to any of these "job offers" and I often wonder who gets them, and at what price. I've long since given up responding to them, since it's obvious they're looking for the lowest price - not the best translation.


I don't use the job search / bid function on ProZ at all. People contact me directly with jobs through my profile.

[Edited at 2010-09-16 09:36 GMT]


 

Evonymus (Ewa Kazmierczak)  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 05:20
Member (2010)
English to Polish
+ ...
ditto et Sep 16, 2010

Tom in London wrote:

I've never ever had a reply to any of my responses to any of these "job offers" and I often wonder who gets them, and at what price. I've long since given up responding to them, since it's obvious they're looking for the lowest price - not the best translation.


also, jobs within my fields of specialization really seldom happen here, so altogether I don't care so much. I receive my jobs outside proz, so to say.


 

Geraldine Oudin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Japanese to French
+ ...
I like the idea Sep 16, 2010

But I don't know if it can be implemented.

Now that there are templates to answer offer via Proz, I have created a nice one for those lower priced offers and I use them to bid...at my usual rate.

I have no idea how many people react the same way, but I believe it is the only way to educate clients (if they received 100 quotes at let's say 0,15 EUR/word and 5 at 0,03 EUR/word, it might occur to them that there could be a slight difference in the final produce they will receive.


[Modifié le 2010-09-16 12:03 GMT]


 

Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 00:20
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
Popularizing low rates Sep 16, 2010

Alex Lago wrote:

I have two measures to propose which I would like other members to comment on:

1- I propose eliminating the possibility of clients using an email as a way for members to answer offers posted in Proz, all job offer replies would have to be posted through Proz, that way we can see how many people have answered. I don't see a problem in making people receive the offers through Proz, after all they posted them here.

2- Obviously just this information would not really tell us much as we would simply know how many people had answered but we wouldn't know what they had answered, I think the rate proposed by the client should be compared with the rate offered by the member to see if it is equal, higher or lower than the rate the client offered and we should see the following information in the job screen:

Total offers
Offers above rate
Offers equal rate
Offer higher rate

It is just a thought I had now when I saw this job offer, let me know what you think.


Hi Alex,

One of the goals identified for the job posting system in the process of changes to be made to the ProZ.com job posting system was: "Eliminate the potential for the ProZ.com job posting platform to be used to "popularize" low rates."

Among the many changes implemented, the budget information was removed from the job posting form and allowed only in a dedicated field that is visible only to translators who (1) have expressed a preference to consider client budgets, and (2) meet the specified job criteria.

I believe that implementing your suggestion would move us in the opposite direction, towards popularizing low rates. I believe this would not be beneficial for translators.

Regards,
Enrique


 


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