Kudoz discussion box
Thread poster: Vikki Pendleton

Vikki Pendleton  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:09
Member
German to English
+ ...
Jun 15, 2012

Sometimes there are really long discussions in the Kudoz box, and then someone will come along and post an answer without reading the discussion at all. The answer may either have already been discounted in the course of the discussion or may have been proposed by someone else as part of the discussion.

I suggest that either the discussion is more obvious on the page or when people go to post answers on a topic with discussion posts (or more than eg 2 discussions posts) they have to tick a box which says they've read the discussion before answering.


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xxxCristina Koe  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:09
German to Italian
+ ...
It´s easy to tick a box Jun 15, 2012

even if you didn´t read anything at all.
What I find more annoying than that is when the answer was already given by someone during the discussion and then someone new just puts the same answer in the answer box. That is quite unfair. That´s actually your point, but I don´t think that it´s done without having read the discussion. I think most of these people do it just because they have read the discussion!

C.

[Edited at 2012-06-15 11:54 GMT]


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Ty Kendall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:09
Hebrew to English
Can't stop stupid people Jun 15, 2012

I've seen the situation you describe before. I've even seen the asker state in the main question box that they don't want "XX" term as they are looking for an alternative, and then someone goes and answers with "XX" term. Inspired!

I've also seen the situation Cristina describes, and this is just the worst form of opportunism ever. I find it incredibly annoying and makes me lose respect for the person doing it.

As for solutions, not sure. People may just bypass the discussion still by clicking the box regardless as Cristina notes. And these types of people won't tend to care either way.


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neilmac  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:09
Spanish to English
+ ...
Not sure about this Jun 15, 2012

In my case, I'm usually in a hurry and I don't always look at the discussions, especially if they're long. In fact - what am I doing here now? - I should be working...!

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Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 04:09
Chinese to English
Can nudge the semi-stupid Jun 15, 2012

You can't stop teh stupid, this is true. But there are lots of little design features which you can use to encourage non-trolls to be a bit more measured in their posting. A lot of blogs now don't allow one-click responses - like with Proz bids you have to go through the review page before you submit. Sure, idiots *can* just click through, but rational types will take the extra check and use it to do a quick proofread. You can cut the percentage of silly posts - not eliminate, but reduce.

As for Vicki's specific suggestion, the check box - I think it's been overused for "terms and conditions", and people just ignore it these days. The best option might be to make the discussion box bigger, or perhaps to make it visible on the page as you're filling in your answer.


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Ty Kendall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:09
Hebrew to English
Remove the SHOW/HIDE Jun 15, 2012

I agree with Phil. I think if you removed the option to hide the discussion box then it may encourage more people to read it/stop it from being overlooked and as long as the ability to scroll independently of the main page remains in place (to stop the page from becoming ridiculously long) then that might work....of course some people still won't read the discussion if they are really determined not to.

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Vikki Pendleton  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:09
Member
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks and I agree Jun 15, 2012

Thanks for taking the time to consider my suggestion and reply. I like to believe (albeit naively!) that most people aren't deliberately missing the discussion box; as a relative newbie to kudoz, I know it is fairly easy to overlook.

I agree that there could be issues with a checkbox, that was just one option for making it more obvious. I also think that although some people might deliberately take an answer from the discussion and post it, ticking the box would effectively be blatantly admitting to it so would reduce that.

Overall I think that having the discussion box visible above the answers but still scrolling independently would be the best option, because that makes it really obvious that a discussion is ongoing before anyone even starts thinking about an answer independently. However if for some reason that isn't a popular idea (outside of the currently posters) then something like a checkbox would be a fall-back. Other suggestions also welcome


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Enrique Cavalitto
Local time: 17:09
SITE STAFF
Options available to members Jun 15, 2012

Ty Kendall wrote:

I agree with Phil. I think if you removed the option to hide the discussion box then it may encourage more people to read it/stop it from being overlooked and as long as the ability to scroll independently of the main page remains in place (to stop the page from becoming ridiculously long) then that might work....of course some people still won't read the discussion if they are really determined not to.


Hi Ty,

The option to SHOW/HIDE the discussions box was included in the design at the request of many members. This is in line with the point 7 of ProZ.com Guiding principles:

    7. The site has been made highly customizable to permit focused participation. The site is structured in such a way as to allow you to get what you need quickly. You can customize settings in jobs, KudoZ, etc., that result in your seeing only the information that concerns you. This means you can participate as much or as little as you like.


Regards,
Enrique


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Vikki Pendleton  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:09
Member
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Show by default instead of hide? Jun 15, 2012

Enrique wrote:


The option to SHOW/HIDE the discussions box was included in the design at the request of many members. This is in line with the point 7 of ProZ.com Guiding principles:

    7. The site has been made highly customizable to permit focused participation. The site is structured in such a way as to allow you to get what you need quickly. You can customize settings in jobs, KudoZ, etc., that result in your seeing only the information that concerns you. This means you can participate as much or as little as you like.


Regards,
Enrique


Thanks Enrique. It would be interesting to know how many members requested it specifically, and how many would need to request it changed back to change it back

I appreciate the fact that the site is highly customisable, but I don't really see why the Kudoz discussion is there on a show/hide basis while reference information and other answers can't be hidden. The discussion often contains important additional context information which the asker didn't include in the question, therefore making it at least as relevant as the reference information.

Perhaps rather than getting rid of the show/hide altogether, it should show by default and people need to opt to hide it either on a case-by-case basis or in their settings.

Regards
Vikki


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Enrique Cavalitto
Local time: 17:09
SITE STAFF
Discussions box shown by default is the default option Jun 15, 2012

Thanks Vikki,

When an account is created, the option to show/hide the discussions is preset to 'Discussion board always open'.

To have the discussion box hidden as default, then, a ProZ.com user need to go to his/her KudoZ dashboard and make a deliberate choice.

Regards,
Enrique


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Vikki Pendleton  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:09
Member
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Not actually showing Jun 15, 2012

Thanks Enrique.

However, I only joined proz relatively recently and I'm not au fait enough with the customisation to have made any changes. The discussion board does not show by default for me nor for my friend who joined last month, so what should be the default setting doesn't seem to be working.

Regards,
Vikki


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Enrique Cavalitto
Local time: 17:09
SITE STAFF
You are right Jun 15, 2012

Vikki Pendleton wrote:

Thanks Enrique.

However, I only joined proz relatively recently and I'm not au fait enough with the customisation to have made any changes. The discussion board does not show by default for me nor for my friend who joined last month, so what should be the default setting doesn't seem to be working.

Regards,
Vikki



Thanks Vikki,

I tested this condition and found out that you are right. I have asked our developers to modify the default condition for new profiles (to be created in the future) in such a way that this condition comes as default. This will have no impact on existing profiles, as there is no way of knowing what choices they have made about this variable.

Regards,
Enrique


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Vikki Pendleton  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:09
Member
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks! Jun 15, 2012

Enrique wrote:

I have asked our developers to modify the default condition for new profiles (to be created in the future) in such a way that this condition comes as default. This will have no impact on existing profiles, as there is no way of knowing what choices they have made about this variable.

Regards,
Enrique


Thanks Enrique, that will be really helpful I'm sure the problem - or the bit that can readily be addressed - is in new members not realising there's a discussion board at all. I completely understand that this can't be retro-fitted for existing members.

Thanks for your help on this

Vikki


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Tina Vonhof  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 13:09
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
But sometimes... Jun 16, 2012

these discussions go on and on, nitpick, digress from the topic, and occasionally even become personal. If someone has a good suggestion, why not post it as an answer? Sometimes I suspect people 'discuss' because they don't want to commit themselves to posting an answer that might be wrong.

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