| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183] > | Should “native language” claims be verified? Thread poster: XXXphxxx (X)
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Cetacea 
Switzerland
Local time: 23:40
English to German
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| Not a wiseass at all | Aug 2, 2012 |
Marina Steinbach wrote: Michele Fauble wrote: Marina Steinbach wrote:
I am not a German citizen. However, I visited the John-F.-Kennedy-Schule, a German-American Community School in Berlin-Zehlendorf, from 1971 to 1973.
I think you meant that you attended that school. The German 'besuchen' does not translate as 'visit' when attendance at school is meant. Klogschieter! Have I mentioned that I was born in Northern Germany and am also able to speak Low German (Plattdeutsch)? I really don't understand why you are lecturing me here...
Maybe because until very recently, you claimed to be native in English and even set out to prove it by producing two birth certificates?
(See http://www.proz.com/forum/translation_theory_and_practice/227735-is_there_a_comma_missing_or_something_else_wrong_with_this_statement.html )
What is more, you still offer translations from German into English, which means you shouldn't be making that kind of a mistake, not even in a Forum post. So, Michele is not being a wiseass at all. By the way, I understand Plattdeutsch quite well myself...
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 22:40
Member (2007)
English
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| Lilian has confirmed our suspicions | Aug 2, 2012 |
LilianBoland wrote:
I can really put Klingon, or no native language declared-- I don't care, really I absolutely don't care what I put in my profile on this site.
This is what's at the crux of the problem, IMO, and absolute proof that the problem exists much as we thought. Some translators will just bung anything down. Who cares if it is not in the slightest bit credible? Leave it to the client (who will quite likely not know the language) to decide if it's true.
Where does that leave the credibility of the site? Why do some people care so little about the information they associate with their names here?
Sheila
| | | | Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 14:40
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
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| Just to clarify | Aug 2, 2012 |
Cetacea wrote: Marina Steinbach wrote: Michele Fauble wrote: Marina Steinbach wrote:
I am not a German citizen. However, I visited the John-F.-Kennedy-Schule, a German-American Community School in Berlin-Zehlendorf, from 1971 to 1973.
I think you meant that you attended that school. The German 'besuchen' does not translate as 'visit' when attendance at school is meant. Klogschieter! Have I mentioned that I was born in Northern Germany and am also able to speak Low German (Plattdeutsch)? I really don't understand why you are lecturing me here... Maybe because until very recently, you claimed to be native in English and even set out to prove it by producing two birth certificates? (See http://www.proz.com/forum/translation_theory_and_practice/227735-is_there_a_comma_missing_or_something_else_wrong_with_this_statement.html ) What is more, you still offer translations from German into English, which means you shouldn't be making that kind of a mistake, not even in a Forum post. So, Michele is not being a wiseass at all. By the way, I understand Plattdeutsch quite well myself...
I was not aware that Marina was no longer claiming to be native in English.
[Edited at 2012-08-02 20:35 GMT]
| | | | | Sheila, you probably totally misunderstood my point | Aug 2, 2012 |
Klingon is a fictitious language, which is equivalent to no language, no real language declared as native. I would not declare German or French, or Spanish. Klingon is just a metaphor for no real language.
I cannot declare a language I have not been speaking other than at certain hearings or conferences, for the last twenty something years, and that I haven't written anything serious in for thirty years, as my only native language. That would be a lie.
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Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:40
Hebrew to English
Sheila Wilson wrote: LilianBoland wrote:
I can really put Klingon, or no native language declared-- I don't care, really I absolutely don't care what I put in my profile on this site. This is what's at the crux of the problem, IMO, and absolute proof that the problem exists much as we thought. Some translators will just bung anything down. Who cares if it is not in the slightest bit credible? Leave it to the client (who will quite likely not know the language) to decide if it's true. Where does that leave the credibility of the site? Why do some people care so little about the information they associate with their names here? Sheila
Because some of them don't use their real names, some of them even go as far as to anglicize their names to give their false claims more credibility....and when they are called out on their deception, they cry foul and claim "prejudice" or some other such nonsense to deflect the focus.
They are masters of both deception and deflection.
[Edited at 2012-08-02 18:04 GMT]
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:40
Hebrew to English
LilianBoland wrote:
some of you just go by dictionaries, instead of linguistic research.
...point me to the linguistic research where is says that native language is just any language you identify with, regardless of level attained.
Thanks!
[Edited at 2012-08-03 07:33 GMT]
| | | | Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 14:40
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
| ProZ.com does care | Aug 2, 2012 |
LilianBoland wrote:
I can really put Klingon, or no native language declared-- I don't care, really I absolutely don't care what I put in my profile on this site.
ProZ.com Site Rules
6 Misrepresentation and fraud are forbidden. It is possible to use ProZ.com without disclosing your name. However, impersonating others, using assumed identities, or otherwise attempting to deceive others to any degree will not be tolerated.
http://www.proz.com/siterules/general/6#6
| | | | | Stay with it Michele..... | Aug 2, 2012 |
Michele Fauble wrote:
I was not aware that Maria was no longer claiming to be native in English.
At least one person metamorphosed into being a native English speaker only but others have decided to revert back to their actual native language and drop the English native add-on.
I respect people who bit the bullet and decided to be truthful. I am sure it won't cost them jobs. As for the desperadoes determined in their attempt to pull the wool over everyone's eyes......
[Edited at 2012-08-02 18:15 GMT]
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| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: http://www.proz.com/siterules/general/2#2 | | no native language | Aug 2, 2012 |
Well, I’m one of those people who decided to put no native language on my profile. Putting my actual native language in there would be more misleading than putting English there. So what can I do? No native language.
| | | | | That can happen | Aug 2, 2012 |
Ambrose Li wrote:
Well, I’m one of those people who decided to put no native language on my profile. Putting my actual native language in there would be more misleading than putting English there. So what can I do? No native language.
Nothing is really a problem as long as it reflects the truth and is not just wishful thinking.
Imo.
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:40
Hebrew to English
| What is reassuring is...... | Aug 2, 2012 |
That there are people like Ambrose, Luis and Bernhard to name a few who seem to have their heads screwed on and who care about integrity (both personal and site).
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Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:40
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
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| You’re not the only one Helena! | Aug 2, 2012 |
Helena Chavarria wrote:
Maybe someone has already mentioned what I am about to write. If this is the case, I'm sorry.
All I can say is that I used to be a native speaker of English, born and educated in the south-east of England. When I was 18, my English was excellent. I got grade A in my GCSE.
However, I came to Spain in 1977 and Spanish is the language I use all the time: I dream in Spanish, I think in Spanish, I do everything (except translate) in Spanish.
If I'm honest with myself, I am not a native of any language! My English isn't too bad though I hardly ever have the opportunity to speak to other natives. On the other hand, my Spanish is excellent but people recognise me because of my accent!
Am I the only person with this problem?
I am a bilingual native speaker of Dutch and English, and a Dutch/American dual national. However, I recently decided to declare only one native language because, although I am a native speaker of both Dutch and English, my spoken and written Dutch are not nearly as good as my English. That is, English is my stronger language. However, that's not to say that I don't suffer from the odd instance of language interference while using English, or Dutch for that matter. I can therefore fully identify with Helena.
I spoke both languages at home during the formative years already mentioned by several people in earlier posts. One's ‘first 1–2 years’, ‘first 1–3 years’, ‘first 7 years’, etc. My father was Dutch, and my mother is American. I was born in Holland, but my family almost immediately moved to California, where I spent the first 5 or 6 years of my life. During this time, my mother and father spoke both Dutch and English at home and my brother and I went to a Montessori school. As far as I can remember though, my brother and I spoke mainly English. When I was around six or seven, we moved to Holland, where my brother and I suddenly found ourselves in a Dutch school in Haarlem. It took us only a number of months to learn to speak Dutch fluently. Children are like sponges! At this point, my mother and father decided to switch to speaking only Dutch at home, to make it easier for me and my brother to integrate. However, after around five years in Holland, my parents bought a house in Spain, so the family moved to the Costa Blanca where we attended a British school. Yes, you guessed it, my mother and father then decided to switch back to using English at home, and I have spoken mainly English with my family and close friends ever since. However, we weren’t finished travelling. After around 5 years in Spain, we moved back to Holland, where I attended Dutch high school. After finishing Dutch high school, I moved to Athens, Greece, to do a BA in philosophy at an American university, needless to say, in English. After 5 years in Greece, back to Holland (via France), and then...
... for those of you still with me, I would like to ask you: what is my native language? Good question. I presently have it set as ‘Native in: English’
Michael
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:40
Hebrew to English
| tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh'a'? | Aug 2, 2012 |
LilianBoland wrote:
I can really put Klingon, or no native language declared
Yes you can. Amazingly "Klingon" is an option on the drop-down language menus. Unfortunately Vulcan is not, so I guess I'm out of luck. Now how's that for prejudice!
[Edited at 2012-08-02 19:02 GMT]
| | | | | I think you should declare, Michael, the language you feel is your native | Aug 2, 2012 |
and not let other people to make decisions about your language, name, screen name for that matter, or perhaps that you should hide the location where you live, not to make people think you get too much exposure to that language. If you read more posts, you probably know what I am talking about. You should definitely do whatever you feel is right. It might be even illegal in the US to tell a person what heir screen name should be like, unless you chose Britney Spears or really a celebrity name --... See more and not let other people to make decisions about your language, name, screen name for that matter, or perhaps that you should hide the location where you live, not to make people think you get too much exposure to that language. If you read more posts, you probably know what I am talking about. You should definitely do whatever you feel is right. It might be even illegal in the US to tell a person what heir screen name should be like, unless you chose Britney Spears or really a celebrity name -- then maybe the person herself could sue you. I did not know so much prejudice still existed in the world. I live in a very liberal place. ▲ Collapse
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