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ESOL credentials verification query
Thread poster: BeaDeer

BeaDeer  Identity Verified
English to Slovenian
+ ...
Jun 27, 2012

During the recent discussion on establishing a means for native language verification, I happened to notice that Proz has confirmed a credential of one member with Cambridge Proficiency in English certificate as valid for both English to L1 and L1 to English. While Proz members translating into non-native English may be highly proficient in L2, phrasing such a credential as verified in both directions is misleading to potential customers. The member in question has stated that they have studied at Cambridge, which, when you look at the whole context, also is only partly true (the person has sat the language exam offered by Cambridge university). I feel that this diminishes the credibility of the site.

Any comments from staff?



[Edited at 2012-06-27 10:31 GMT]

[Edited at 2012-06-27 10:47 GMT]

[Edited at 2012-06-27 10:48 GMT]


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Ty Kendall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:56
Hebrew to English
Bizarre Jun 27, 2012

I've also seen this before. Very disconcerting.

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Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:56
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
And the problem is? Jun 27, 2012

Are you afraid of what precisely?

I have no problems about other people statements, I just do my job at the best of my knowledge, and to satisfy my clients.

I don't know if this is a cultural issue but as long as I satisfy my clients and do my own job I don't care about what other people state


PS. Just to avoid any doubt I got nothing from Cambridge...


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BeaDeer  Identity Verified
English to Slovenian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Read my post again. Jun 27, 2012

You can claim anything you wish, for all I care.
My query is about verification, not about claims per se.

[Edited at 2012-06-27 11:14 GMT]


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Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Empty post

Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:56
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
About the credibility of the Site Jun 27, 2012

In my opinion this Site has a so strong credibility that it is very very difficult to diminish it

Are you sure you are fully aware how famous this Site is in the industry and in the world?

Also, even if someone can be a dog, there is plenty, plenty of very good translators here,

I really can't avoid to say that I feel it's enough now, sorry.

Such a strong criticism during the last days sounds at my latin mind/soul/culture very negative and diminishing the criticizing member/s only.

I am not the only one with a latin soul/mind/culture here.

P.S. always to avoid any doubt please note that I am only a member like most of you.

Regards


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Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:56
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
In this case Jun 27, 2012

BeaDeer wrote:

You can claim anything you wish, for all I care.
My query is about verification, not about claims per se.

[Edited at 2012-06-27 11:14 GMT]


One could perhaps avoid to write "I saw one person..." "has stated that"... this is not general... sorry.

It is true that I am not English native but I have some knowledge of it and your sentences sound like pointing the finger at someone (even if without name).


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BeaDeer  Identity Verified
English to Slovenian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Please do not sideline the question. Jun 27, 2012

Write an essay about it, dear Angie.
I just need a straightforward answer.


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xxxhazmatgerman
Local time: 18:56
English to German
Dear member Angie G. Jun 27, 2012

Prof. Angie G. wrote:

In my opinion this Site has a so strong credibility that it is very very difficult to diminish it
...

I beg to differ; witness recent discussions and the exodus of quite a few highly respected members over the last 2 years. Or perhaps I have been living on a different planet from you?

IMO asker's question is quite relevant: how will site management deal with such an issue of misrepresentation of unidirectional qualification as a bidirectional qualification?
regards
hazmatgerman


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Ty Kendall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:56
Hebrew to English
Missing the point Jun 27, 2012

I think the concern here is that Cambridge ESOL exams are just for English. They are taken by most immigrants/foreign students as a precursor for studying/living in the UK. They most definitely are not translation credentials as every holder of a Cambridge ESOL exam is most certainly not a translator! (nor is capable of being one).

If ProZ refused to recognize my Bachelor of Arts in Linguistics (including several translation modules) as a translation credential, then they certainly shouldn't be classifying ESOL exams as translation credentials, they aren't. They're monolingual general English courses/exams.

It is misleading to say the least.

[Edited at 2012-06-27 11:48 GMT]


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Catherine GUILLIAUMET  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:56
English to French
+ ...
You're so right, Angie ! Jun 27, 2012

I think that all this fuss about native/non-native, verified/non verified, credible/not credible, and so on, is only the translation, the expression of the great concerns and fears generated by the economic crisis we are experiencing.

Since humankind exists, everytime there's a threat or uncertainty over the fate of a group, this group systematically tries to find ways of excluding as many people as possible from that group.

One could expect that History would have taught us that this kind of attitude is a big nonsense, which only reveals our deep animal nature, exactly like when a group of animals excludes the old, weak or injured ones from the group in an attempt to protect the rest of the pack.

A pity.

Catherine


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Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:56
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
Exactly (another latin soul agree with me:) Jun 27, 2012

Catherine GUILLIAUMET wrote:

I think that all this fuss about native/non-native, verified/non verified, credible/not credible, and so on, is only the translation, the expression of the great concerns and fears generated by the economic crisis we are experiencing.

Since humankind exists, everytime there's a threat or uncertainty over the fate of a group, this group systematically tries to find ways of excluding as many people as possible from that group.

One could expect that History would have taught us that this kind of attitude is a big nonsense, which only reveals our deep animal nature, exactly like when a group of animals excludes the old, weak or injured ones from the group in an attempt to protect the rest of the pack.

A pity.

Catherine


A real pity yes, and I am glad to see that you totally understood my tought.


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BeaDeer  Identity Verified
English to Slovenian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Nothing to do with attitude, everything to do with site credibility Jun 27, 2012

While everyone is free to express their opinions, to which you are entitled,
I am still waiting for an official reply.

P.S.
In the meantime, Angie thought it necessary to remind me that it is early morning in the US.
Allow me, therefore, to clarify that my "still" does not refer to responsiveness. I only wished to let everyone know that I will not enter into any subjective discussions.






[Edited at 2012-06-27 12:13 GMT]


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Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:56
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
To paraphrase a colleague Jun 27, 2012

BeaDeer wrote:

While everyone is free to express their opinions, to which you are entitled,
I am still waiting for an official reply.


Staff is in the American continent remember?

It is now 8 am in the Est Coast


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Lucia Leszinsky
SITE STAFF
Please submit a support request Jun 27, 2012

Hello all,

BeaDeer wrote:

During the recent discussion on establishing a means for native language verification, I happened to notice that Proz has confirmed a credential of one member with Cambridge Proficiency in English certificate as valid for both English to L1 and L1 to English. While Proz members translating into non-native English may be highly proficient in L2, phrasing such a credential as verified in both directions is misleading to potential customers. The member in question has stated that they have studied at Cambridge, which, when you look at the whole context, also is only partly true (the person has sat the language exam offered by Cambridge university). I feel that this diminishes the credibility of the site.

Any comments from staff?


In order to look into this, I am afraid that site staff will need more details. So, I invite you to submit a support request with relevant information and I will personally look into this further. Thanks!

Lucia


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