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Corporate members listed in the search for freelancers?
Thread poster: BeaDeer

BeaDeer  Identity Verified
English to Slovenian
+ ...
Jul 7, 2012

Running a search for translators in a desired language pair brings up a profile that does not belong to a translator but to a translation company. - the description "freelancer and outsourcer" is misleading.
The "freelancer and outsourcer" in question is not an individual but a corporation.

Any comments?


 

Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
My comment Jul 7, 2012

Given that here you cannot write names, I do not think that our comments can be useful,

May I suggest to submit a support ticket? So that staff can look in to it with accurate information as you will be able to tell them who this person is.

Regards

Edited for typo

[Edited at 2012-07-07 15:45 GMT]


 

Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:26
English to German
+ ...
Only if the corporate membership has been purchased under a current individual profile page Jul 7, 2012

Any translation office that is owned and operated by one or more translators and is an established company and is outsourcing jobs from their direct clients is considered a corporation, even if they are not an agency in the classical sense. Why should the owners who are translators themselves be excluded from the freelancer list?

 

Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:26
English to German
+ ...
You can look at my profile Jul 7, 2012

Angie Garbarino wrote:


Given that here you cannot write names, I do not think that our comments can be useful,

May I suggest to submit a support ticket? So that staff can look in to it with accurate information as you will be able to tell them who this person is.

Regards




I am one of those people. icon_smile.gif


 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:26
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
There is certainly confusion Jul 7, 2012

BeaDeer wrote:
the description "freelancer and outsourcer" is misleading.
The "freelancer and outsourcer" in question is not an individual but a corporation.


I believe a "translator" can be in the form of a "freelance translator" (one self-employed person trading under their own name) or a "translation company" (one or more people trading as a company). It is possible for both forms to outsource work (to freelancers and/or companies); it is also possible for both types to perform all the work themselves.

I quite agree, with you: a freelancer cannot, by definition, be a company.

Sheila


 

Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
@Nicole :) Jul 7, 2012

I have just sent to you an email via profile, to better explain my post, I cannot here (rules)

Kindest regards and have a wnderful week end!


 

Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
I agree Jul 7, 2012

Nicole Schnell wrote:

Any translation office that is owned and operated by one or more translators and is an established company and is outsourcing jobs from their direct clients is considered a corporation, even if they are not an agency in the classical sense. Why should the owners who are translators themselves be excluded from the freelancer list?


Yes... this is also my opinion


 

Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:26
English to German
+ ...
Hm, technically every self-employed freelancer is a company Jul 7, 2012

Sheila Wilson wrote:

BeaDeer wrote:
the description "freelancer and outsourcer" is misleading.
The "freelancer and outsourcer" in question is not an individual but a corporation.


I believe a "translator" can be in the form of a "freelance translator" (one self-employed person trading under their own name) or a "translation company" (one or more people trading as a company). It is possible for both forms to outsource work (to freelancers and/or companies); it is also possible for both types to perform all the work themselves.

I quite agree, with you: a freelancer cannot, by definition, be a company.

Sheila


No matter if the self-employed person is operating under his/her own name or under an assumed business name.

The profile page simply states: "Subcontracts work for other language companies
Offers job opportunities for freelancers"

Corporate membership means that you pay a hefty price for better exposure and some other benefits.


 

Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:26
English to German
+ ...
Thanks, Angie! :-) Jul 7, 2012

Angie Garbarino wrote:



I have just sent to you an email via profile, to better explain my post, I cannot here (rules)

Kindest regards and have a wnderful week end!


Have a great week, too!

Best,
Nicoleicon_smile.gif


 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:26
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Individual translator versus company of translators Jul 7, 2012

Nicole Schnell wrote:
Hm, technically every self-employed freelancer is a company

No matter if the self-employed person is operating under his/her own name or under an assumed business name.

I can't say I'm an expert in the area, but there are certainly some major differences between a freelancer and a company, even though a company can be set up by one individual. A freelancer trades as an individual person, not as a legal entity. As such, a freelancer owns his/her assets, and debts, and risks his/her own personal belongings if declared bankrupt, including personal property. There is no company structure taking that risk, but then taxes etc are lower.

In your case, Nicole, the company has your name and it only appears to offer the EnglishGerman pairs, so I can see you as having one foot in each camp, so to speak.icon_smile.gif Where it becomes totally confusing on ProZ.com is where you have a "freelancer and outsourcer" profile that is clearly not in a personal name and where 20 or 30 language pairs are offered. To my mind, that type of profile has no place alongside freelance translators who personally have the expertise they declare. It seems to me that a translator's profile should refer to one single person, whether freelancer or company owner, service provider only or outsourcer as well. If it's a team, there should be several translator profiles linked to one company profile.

Sheila


 

Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:26
English to German
+ ...
For tax and liability reasons in the US, I prefer to trade as a legal entity Jul 7, 2012

Sheila Wilson wrote:

I can't say I'm an expert in the area, but there are certainly some major differences between a freelancer and a company, even though a company can be set up by one individual. A freelancer trades as an individual person, not as a legal entity. As such, a freelancer owns his/her assets, and debts, and risks his/her own personal belongings if declared bankrupt, including personal property. There is no company structure taking that risk, but then taxes etc are lower.

In your case, Nicole, the company has your name and it only appears to offer the EnglishGerman pairs, so I can see you as having one foot in each camp, so to speak.icon_smile.gif Where it becomes totally confusing on ProZ.com is where you have a "freelancer and outsourcer" profile that is clearly not in a personal name and where 20 or 30 language pairs are offered. To my mind, that type of profile has no place alongside freelance translators who personally have the expertise they declare. It seems to me that a translator's profile should refer to one single person, whether freelancer or company owner, service provider only or outsourcer as well. If it's a team, there should be several translator profiles linked to one company profile.

Sheila


Yes, my name is the profile name. The company however is Schnell Creative Group, Inc. and I can not send invoices or accept checks under my own name.
This company has been established and has been offering marketing services long before we added translation services. Technically, I am an employee of this family-owned business.


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:26
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
From the searching person's point of view... Jul 7, 2012

I think the difference is that somebody with a freelancer profile has his/her resume (or similar information) included there, experience, etc. and presumably does the work himself/herself. In other words, the person searching for a provider can select the exact individual working on the assignment. A company profile does not allow for selecting the exact professional, as they are presumably passing on the work either to their inhouse employees or their outside contractors. The client (most of the time) does not know who exactly would work on the assignment. The mixed type (freelancer + outsourcer) profile type allows for a freelancer to let the clients know that sometime he/she outsources the work (or the other way around, most of the time he/she outsources, but sometimes he/she works on assignments as well).
There is no point in discussing which type of setup is better - clients may have their own preference.

As to the search function, in the Advanced Directory, I think the default setting for "Freelancer/Company" is "Any", which means everybody will be listed.
You can choose "Freelancer", and then only freelancers will be listed.
You can choose "Company", and then only companies will be listed.
There is a checkbox to "Include vendors who define themselves as BOTH a freelancer and a company", and I think the default setting for that is OFF.
So, I think if you want to list ONLY freelancers, excluding the mixed profiles, then you select "Freelancer" and make sure the checkbox is unchecked.
At least this is how it should work, although just a few days ago a bug was discovered (discussed on the PRO forum) where in certain cases companies (pure companies, not mixed profiles) were listed along with freelancers where they were not supposed to. Given that, I would suggest to submit a support request, describing the type of search you did with screenshots, just in case it is related to the same bug.

Katalin

[Edited at 2012-07-08 01:04 GMT]


 

BeaDeer  Identity Verified
English to Slovenian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Bug Jul 7, 2012

Thank you, Sheila, for understanding my question in the sense it was posted,
and many thanks, Katalin, for providing this detailed information.
It is a bug then.

Also found (in my language pair): when "Include vendors who define themselves as BOTH a freelancer and a company" is ticked and "Company" selected, only freelancers who do *not* work as a corporate body are listed as a result.

In addition to profiles listed under "freelance and outsourcer" although they do not belong to individuals but to local companies, these either sport a double unverified N or a single verified N, just like individuals. And the odd company owned by two individuals listed as a freelancer/outsourcer, with a verified profile.

P.S.
Thank you, Angie and Nicole, for your take on the subject.





















[Edited at 2012-07-08 00:16 GMT]

[Edited at 2012-07-08 00:40 GMT]


 

Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:26
English to German
+ ...
Good. Jul 7, 2012

BeaDeer wrote:

Thank you, Sheila, for understanding my question in the sense it was posted,
and many thanks, Katalin, for providing this detailed information.
It is a bug then.


Because not every individual on this portal might fit into standardized forms or wishes to do so. Those who refuse to be tagged by the usual "one-fits-all"-label are the truly outstanding ones who can combine various skills as a full-service provider for highly sophisticated tasks. The last thing we need on the largest translator portal on this planet is egalitarianism. No-one is stealing your jobs that are not within your scope anyway.

Edited for readability.icon_smile.gif

[Edited at 2012-07-08 00:06 GMT]


 
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