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checking the glossary before asking a question - make it mandatory?
Thread poster: Ken Cox
Ken Cox  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:15
German to English
+ ...
Mar 10, 2005

Given the size of the Proz glossary and the volume of repeat and trivial terms currently appearing (in the German>English pair, but probably in many others as well), how about implementing a mandatory glossary lookup step in the 'ask a question' procedure? It wouldn't take that much longer for the person asking the question, and it would enforce a bit of discipline in observing the question rules (which is sorely needed).
Mandatory google searching would be another idea, but IMO it's probably too much of an imposition and logistically difficult.


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Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 22:15
Member
Catalan to English
+ ...
Discussed before Mar 10, 2005

Hi Kenneth,

This subject has been raised before.

e.g.http://www.proz.com/topic/25564

I hope you're more successful.

Regards,
Andy


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I second the motion Mar 10, 2005

Yes, good idea.

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David Brown  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:15
Spanish to English
Triviality, proz glossaries and Google Mar 10, 2005

[quote]Kenneth Cox wrote:

Given the size of the Proz glossary and the volume of repeat and trivial terms currently appearing (in the German>English pair, but probably in many others as well), how about implementing a mandatory glossary lookup step in the 'ask a question' procedure?

Many of the proz questions are trivial (if you know the answer!), but many of the askers are often transient visitors who may not know or know how to use the tools available. For many translators, like myself, I use proz.com both to ask for help and to give it (this part is usually a bit of light relief from slogging away at a long translation). It is human nature to ask someone a question rather than spend time looking for it. Also there are sufficient members who do tell askers to look up the glossaries. Also quite a few answers to questions are very specific and only fits the context around it.


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Hilary Davies Shelby
United States
Local time: 15:15
German to English
The Nanny State Comes to KudoZ ;-) Mar 10, 2005

Hello! I have to say that I have noticed a rash of "KudoZ policing" by non-moderators lately. Perhaps this is in response to the number of people posting LOADS of questions and even whole texts (this HAS noticeably increased), but there seem to be an awful lot of general irritation on the boards.

I didn't realise that KudoZ doesn't recognise the German "ss" symbol when I looked up a word recently, so I know from experience that duplicate postings can happen accidentally, or for a variety of reasons which are nothing to do with laziness, or stupidity, as I have seen implied.

Some of you will have noticed the post on these forums about thanking people on KudoZ, and the number of people who find it irritating to be thanked, or to have to wade through a bunch of "thank yous"!

If you close a question too early, you get your wrist slapped; if you leave it open too long, you get daily reminder emails. I think KudoZ is a wonderful resource - this week I got a lot of help from several people on the German boards - and I want to see it be as good as it can be, but I feel that it's becoming less of a pleasure to use and more of a chore. I'm finding myself thinking: "Should I post this?" "Dare I post again today?" "Has this been asked before?" "Have I checked all possible variant spellings?" "Is it Ok to close it now?" "Have I posted too many questions?"? "Have I thanked everyone?" "Is this person one of those who likes being thanked or will he/she find it irritating?"...

I have also noticed recently that people seem to be getting ruder in their responses to questions, not only questioning people's professional credibility, but their intelligence. This is something I have been discussing in emails with various other Prozians who, unfortunately, agree.

I even got a private message this week from a colleague on the German boards who felt that he had to withdraw her response to one of my questions because she got so much nasty feedback from our fellow Prozians! If it has come to this, something is truly rotten...


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Hilary Davies Shelby
United States
Local time: 15:15
German to English
eah, Kenneth, check the forums before you post! Mar 10, 2005

andycw wrote:

Hi Kenneth,

This subject has been raised before.

e.g.http://www.proz.com/topic/25564

I hope you're more successful.

Regards,
Andy


Yeah, Kenneth, check the forums before you post!


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Ken Cox  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:15
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
OK, mea culpa Mar 10, 2005

Yes, I should have checked the forums first. Maybe the advice to check the glossary first should be placed on the question form in 40-point type (that's probably been suggested already as well).

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Rosa Maria Duenas Rios  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:15
But this is different, I think... Mar 10, 2005

Kenneth Cox wrote:

Yes, I should have checked the forums first. Maybe the advice to check the glossary first should be placed on the question form in 40-point type (that's probably been suggested already as well).


...It is not the same to find that an asker is posting the same question that he/she posted six months ago, and that is already in the glossaries (quite frustrating), than to bring this topic to the front lines from time to time... as someone said before, maybe this time somehting can be done...

Anyway, I just wanted to copy here my "letter to Santa Claus", which I just posted in the "Context" thread:

What I would love to see in Kudoz...

...may be some day... after all, dreaming keeps us alive, and hope dies last...

1. An "automatic" field for context. If there is none, at least the asker would have to state so.
2. An "automatic" previous search of the glossaries; OR some sort of notice like "the term you are entering is already in KudoZ glossaries", if such were the case...

Until then, our patience and tolerance will have to make up for the imperfections of Proz, which I still consider wonderful!


[Edited at 2005-03-25 14:49]


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RHELLER
United States
Local time: 14:15
French to English
+ ...
I support Ken's idea Mar 10, 2005

on the condition that the question-asking form reminds me

I admit that I can be forgetful and have been guilty of not checking the glossary first.

My proz friends usually bring that to my attention

Our glossary is/can be something of vital assistance...especially when one is in a great hurry. Let's do everything we can to improve it

In addition, it turns our "game" into something worthwhile.

(please note that I have refrained from using exclamation points


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xxxLatin_Hellas
United States
Local time: 22:15
Italian to English
+ ...
Humans still faster than computers Mar 10, 2005

I respectfully disagree.

It is entirely possible that a knowledgable human being can aid his fellowing human being faster and more accurately than a computer.
If it is faster and more efficient for someone to post a query and for someone to answer it faster and more efficiently than for the enquirer to labor through the glossary, then what, in the name of humanity, is wrong with that?

No one is obliged to answer a query. Yes, some are trivial, but we all have the power to skip over those.

Again, respectfully,

Steve


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Jörgen Slet  Identity Verified
Estonia
Local time: 23:15
English to Estonian
+ ...
I would make it automatic rather than compulsory Mar 10, 2005

I would either have the search done automatically or have a button on the page to do it automatically.

There should perhaps be options for substring searches and fuzzy searches, especially with longer phrases and if exact phrase search doesn't give results.


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Ken Cox  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:15
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
agree with Jörgen Mar 10, 2005

Yes, automatic would be friendlier than compulsory and would achieve the same objective. At minimum, it would give people who want to ask questions an opportunity to see all the previous (related) answers, so they can judge whether any of them meets their needs or there is a genuine need for a new question, and to (optionally) note in their questions why the previous answers aren't satisfactory in thier particular case (part of the context...). And I can't see any technical reason why it couldn't be done automatically, since the term and language pair are already specified (and narrowing the search by field/category could even be considered as an option).
Naturally, for many terms there's always room for a different nuance, and asking more questions enlarges the glossary, but if the principal purpose of the site is to help people find traslations, why not actively encourage askers to use the glossary?


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Rosa Maria Duenas Rios  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:15
Jorgen and Kenneth have got a point... Mar 10, 2005

Kenneth Cox wrote:

Yes, automatic would be friendlier than compulsory and would achieve the same objective.

... Automatic is better than compulsory. I have ammended my message accordingly.


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Silvia Montufo Urquízar  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:15
French to Spanish
+ ...
Very funny, Hilary:-) Mar 11, 2005

No one is obliged to answer any questions. I am just grateful for the help I get, and try to help as well.

Nevertheless, I am for compulsory checking the glossaries (or automatic, but not so much) because this way nobody gets spoilt (and I include myself).

Best regars to everyone.

Silvia


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Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 22:15
Member
Catalan to English
+ ...
If I'm not mistaken...... Mar 11, 2005

.....these are the very points I made in the link posted above:


Bad taste though it may be to quote oneself:
================================================================
Make Glossary search compulsory Thread Poster: andycw
andycw
Spain
Spanish>English
+ ...
Oct 11, 2004

"Possible solution:
Why not turn the KudoZ question page into an automatic “Glossary Search” page?
i.e. Askers enter the necessary information exactly as they would in order to ask a question but, prior to the question being posted, they would be referred to the existing glossary entries for the word, expression, etc…….and have to “decline” all the answers provided.
This should be compulsory.

Answerers could then take for granted that the asker has seen all the previous answers for that particular question and the asker would then have to explain why they’re not satisfied with what they’ve found.
For which there can, of course, be a host of perfectly valid reasons, but at the very least, the asker would have to explain why their context is different to those already covered.

This would (or at least, should) vastly reduce the number of questions along the lines of “My name is Carlos”, “I love you”, “Do you like apples?” et al……… much to the annoyance and regret of those answerers whose sole purpose is to amass a vast number of KudoZ points by answering the same daft questions half a dozen times a day."
================================================================

It would very possibly solve various common complaints at the same time.

Regards,
Andy


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