in the midst of so many new features...
Thread poster: RHELLER
RHELLER
United States
Local time: 08:12
French to English
+ ...
Apr 26, 2005

how about adding appendices/reference files on commonly asked topics?

I am specifically referring to educational systems. Each time the same questions pop up,the same discussion continues ad nauseum, and the asker is usually left confused.

Having lived in both France and the U.S., and having kids and other family members at university, I have a pretty good idea of the various systems. I do not know the Canadian system intimately, but I trust the Canadians will have their input, as well.

For example, which grades and which ages in the UK correspond to the same in France/U.S./Canada, etc.? My language pair is French>English but I am sure translators in other languages/other countries could benefit as well.

These are not really translation issues, they do not change constantly, and any context-dependent issue can be taken into account (i.e. medical school vs. liberal arts, et).

Not a glossary, not a forum, an appendix:-)

By the way, sometimes NO equivalent exists.


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Magda Dziadosz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 16:12
Member (2004)
English to Polish
+ ...
Like..Howtos, for example? Apr 26, 2005

Rita Heller wrote:

how about adding appendices/reference files on commonly asked topics?
/.../
Not a glossary, not a forum, an appendix:-)


Hello Rita,
seems that in the midst of so many new features many miss one existing one : the How To section Many common and not so common topics are covered there, but it seems that this section of Proz.com is somehow less known. The articles are linked to forums, there is a link on the top of each forum page to Related Howtos (the link is active if there are any howtos related to a given forum). Your article on French and US educational systems certainy would be more then welcome!
All the best,
Magda


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xxxLia Fail  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 16:12
Spanish to English
+ ...
A great idea! Apr 26, 2005

Hi Rita

As it happens, I just popped out of a question in which someone mentioned a word as being the 'bane' of translations, which ties in with your last comment. In other words, a language-pair specific forum on 'untranslatables', and on items which only have poor equivalences.

As you said, education systems and university lecturer titles, as one example of vocab in context.

Untranslatables such as teh one I came across the other day 'proposición no de ley', which is very difficult to translate. However, I had to reasearch it and translate it somehow, so it would be good to share and contrast this kind of work with others.


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Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:12
Member (2011)
Multiplelanguages
+ ...
educational equivalents Apr 26, 2005

With a list of college, university and graduate school diplomas from several institutions in the US and France and having worked as an assistant director of a Franco-American university student exchange program (translating such equivalences between 15 different institutions), I think that Rita's suggestion is very appropriate.

I've certainly got a ton of emails over the past 10 years covering the topic of educational/diploma/degree equivalents that I could offer to this initiative. Just have to look them up from old CDs and get them into a readable/usable format.

Jeff
http://www.geocities.com/jeffallenpubs/


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Fuad Yahya  Identity Verified
Arabic
+ ...
Excellent idea and many parallel applications, but let's do the obvious first Apr 26, 2005

Rita Heller wrote:

Each time the same questions pop up,the same discussion continues ad nauseum, and the asker is usually left confused.



The ad nauseam repetition of the same question is an irritating feature in KudoZ, and possibly a burden to the system as well. Just today, two English-Arabic questions were posted, one on "intranet," the other on "router." Both terms had been posted and discussed several times before in the same language pair. We could have been spared another round of discussion on an old topic.

Clearly, an automatic KudoZ archive search needs to be instituted. As soon as an asker has clicked the button to post a term, the system should perform a search of previous postings of the same term (whole words, open and closed questions, bi-directional pairs). The results shouold be presented with the option to "force-post" the term if the previous answers were found unsatisfactory. If force-posting is selected, the asker should be required to fill a "reason for re-posting" box, briefly explaining why the previous postings did not address his/her needs, so that answerers would not present useless information that had been posted many times before. The answers should focus on the specific need explained by the asker.

That should take care of the ad nauseam reposting of the same question.

But as you point out, some questions are more about comparative systems than about terms. To address this need a localization reference containing comparative information about conventions, traditions, and systems in various countries would be very helpful. The educational systems in various countries, as you pointed out, are an example of such information that translators often need. But there is a lot more. For example, English-Arabic translators often find themselves lost in an ocean of confusion regarding the different names used in different Arabic-speaking countries for:

- official titles and proper salutaions for each
- military ranks
- military units
- names of the months of the year (especially in Libya)

Experts on these topics can be asked to write articles (or, in some cases, just lists or comparative tables) similar to the many how-to articles we already have on line dealing with technical issues. We can put these in a separate category dealing with localization issues.

Great idea.


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RHELLER
United States
Local time: 08:12
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
the How To section Apr 26, 2005

"Many common and not so common topics are covered there, but it seems that this section of Proz.com is somehow less known. The articles are linked to forums, there is a link on the top of each forum page to Related Howtos (the link is active if there are any howtos related to a given forum)."

thanks Magda!

I admit that I was in the dark about the "how to" section. I guess I could write my own equivalency chart or I could start a forum to be linked to an article.

Sounds like Jeff is one who should be included in this

Did I forget to mention that this is a hotly debated topic?...always causes a stir on kudoz because some people think the Baccalaureat is equal to a U.S. high school diploma. Not! There is no final exam in the U.S. for high school material. Therefore, no overall retention is required, and the level is lower. Students are not required to follow the same program, as is common in France. Some students have studied calculus, advanced trigonometry, chemistry and physics, while others study basic math and beginning algebra.

These are not cosmetic differences and the bac is often considered to be equal to 2 years of college.

So, here's my question to Magda and the other prozniks (thanks, Fuad!)...how do we handle controversy within factual reference files?


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RHELLER
United States
Local time: 08:12
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
university/academic titles Apr 26, 2005

are also hotly debated

lecturer, assistant, associate, full professor and the like... (visiting)

not easy to draw clear lines but they are very precisely defined in the U.S.

Good point, Ailish

[Edited at 2005-04-26 22:47]


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Deborah Shannon  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:12
Member (2002)
German to English
Handling controversy Apr 26, 2005

Good point, Rita.


Did I forget to mention that this is a hotly debated topic?...always causes a stir on kudoz because some people think the Baccalaureat is equal to

So, here's my question to Magda and the other prozniks (thanks, Fuad!)...how do we handle controversy within factual reference files?[/quote]

Here's another tormented soul who spends too much time pondering international qualifications. Coincidentally, I'm trying to map out this area for my language pair, German-English and have started a list of resources online here. There's also a searchable lexicon which is growing steadily (and messily - a result of learning the web stuff and translating at the same time).

Definitely a task for collaboration - I find there's lots of reference material out there, but not always matching material for the two systems under comparison.

On the controversy issue, my suggestion would be to start a page on Wikipedia, where others can check/edit/update but all edits are logged and persistent vandals can be banned

Anyway, I'll gladly help if this turns into a separate project. It probably wouldn't deter Kudoz questions on the subject, but should make them quicker to answer

[Edited at 2005-04-26 23:46]


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