close question without grading
Thread poster: Mona Helal
Mona Helal  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:51
Arabic to English
+ ...
Nov 13, 2005

On a couple of occassions I closed questions without grading because I found the answers somewhere else. However, I found that answers were still being posted, and I get notifications about them.

I don't understand why such questions can still be accessible for contribution by helpers.

Shouldn't there be a prominant way of drawing helpers attention that such questions are closed?
Maybe stopping access to such questions can be programmed into the system.

Is this a valid request?


[Edited at 2005-11-13 14:26]

[Edited at 2005-11-13 14:39]


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Kirill Semenov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 13:51
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
Not correct answer, but the most helpful one Nov 13, 2005

Dear Mona,

Mona Helal wrote:
On a couple of occassions I closed questions without grading because I found the answers somewhere else. However, I found that answers were still being posted, and I get notifications about them.
[Edited at 2005-11-13 14:26]


I just want to note that in kudoZ you have to select not the *correct* or *the best* answer, but the most helpful answer. An answer may not fit your context or anything, but if it pushed you in the right direction then it was helpful. The goal of kudoZ is not to provide the precise solution but to help. The answer which was helpful deserves grading, and for me personally, closing a question without grading is a rare occasion - so please follow your judgement and use the option with care.

[Edited at 2005-11-13 14:36]


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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 05:51
German to English
KOG - KudoZ Open Glossary Nov 13, 2005

Mona Helal wrote:

On a couple of occassions I closed questions without grading because I found the answers somewhere else. However, I found that answers were still being posted, and I get notifications about them.

I don't understand why such questions can still be accessible for contribution by helpers.

Shouldn't there be a prominant way of drawing helpers attention that such questions are closed?
Maybe stopping access to such questions can be programmed into the system.



Dear Mona,
Once you've asked a KudoZ question, it no longer belongs exclusively to you. The answers also belong to the community as a translation resource for future glossary searchers. Occasionally, I come across a question that has no satisfactory answer and might add my own solution for future glossary users.

Kim


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writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
sometimes the 'closed without grading' is used very arbitrarily Nov 13, 2005

Kim Metzger wrote:

Dear Mona,
Once you've asked a KudoZ question, it no longer belongs exclusively to you. The answers also belong to the community as a translation resource for future glossary searchers. Occasionally, I come across a question that has no satisfactory answer and might add my own solution for future glossary users.

Kim



Besides Kim's reason for keeping it open to new answers and peer comments, I've seen this option used very arbitrarily or for personal reasons, with poor excuses even though a perfectly suitable answer/answers had been proposed. By keeping it open for additional comments/proposals, it does allow those looking later on to find valid answers, even if the original Asker decided to go his/her own way. One must remember that Asker rules supreme on deciding the fate of a question and getting or losing points can have very little to do with how correct or incorrect an answer actually is.
Closing without grading can be a very valid option, but it is open to abuse by those so inclined.


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Marijke Singer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:51
Dutch to English
+ ...
Perfectly entitled to close without grading Nov 13, 2005

However, it is most infuriating when the asker who does this does not add the term and the found translation to the glossary. In my view, the KudoZ system is there for the future and it is not some kind of homework or competition/test. If askers find answers elsewhere, adding this information to the glossary is, in my personal opinion, a must. So maybe there should be some mechanism by which an asker cannot close a question without providing a glossary entry. I do know that some questions have no answers and, therefore, there should be some box that states this as well.

Askers can also provide the term they have used in the Ask the Asker field

Why leave the rest of us guessing?


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writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
well put-couldn't agree more Nov 13, 2005

Marijke Singer wrote:

However, it is most infuriating when the asker who does this does not add the term and the found translation to the glossary. In my view, the KudoZ system is there for the future and it is not some kind of homework or competition/test. If askers find answers elsewhere, adding this information to the glossary is, in my personal opinion, a must. So maybe there should be some mechanism by which an asker cannot close a question without providing a glossary entry. I do know that some questions have no answers and, therefore, there should be some box that states this as well.

Askers can also provide the term they have used in the Ask the Asker field

Why leave the rest of us guessing?


there is one case I know where the Asker simply refuses to provide the answer she found (I've asked several times) and yet actually asked someone else to provide an answer under the same circumstances, even though she wasn't even one of those who answered! Of course the other person did provide the answer used -but the party in question absolutely refuses to do the same for her own question. Others tried to help and this is her idea of thanks. This site is an information exchange, not a place just to grab what you need.


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Monika Coulson  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:51
Member (2001)
English to Albanian
+ ...
A great idea Nov 13, 2005

Marijke Singer wrote:
... If askers find answers elsewhere, adding this information to the glossary is, in my personal opinion, a must...


I think this is a great idea and a great solution. If an asker decides to close a question without grading it, s/he should enter her/his own answer then.

Monika


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Angus Woo
Local time: 18:51
Chinese to English
+ ...
I think new rules are needed Nov 14, 2005

On many occasions I have seen questions closed ungraded which is, in my opinion, very odd. Kudoz is not the place to shop freely for the precise answer (what is the right answer is sometimes open to debate) but to find the most helpful one. I just can't imagine that none of the answers provided by fellow members is relevant. This simply doesn't happen.

Personally I think that when closing a question the asker should be restricted to choose between two options, either to provide the right answer the asker claims to have found elsewhere or to choose one answer that is most helpful (not necessarily the right one).

The current system is obviously being abused by some. I have seen askers with dozens of question left opened or ungraded.

The goodwill of helpers simply should not be exploited.


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Rosa Maria Duenas Rios  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:51
I just posted comments to an already closed question today... Nov 14, 2005

... and my reason was simple, I thought the answer chosen and entered in the glossaries was wrong. So I included a note.

I am glad that we can do this after questions have been closed, otherwise, just because we did not get to the question in time, there would be no way of letting people know that not everyone agrees to the term chosen.


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E.LA
Spanish to German
+ ...
closing should be closing Nov 14, 2005

In my opinion, if an asker closes a question, it should be closed and seen in this way in the list, perhaps with another sign or colour that it was closed ungraded.

Sometimes you go there and want to help and after opening the page, you see that the matter is closed without grading.

To enter an answer which is wrong, only to close, as proposed in certain way in the other opinions, doesn't seem to me a good way.


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Dr Sue Levy
Local time: 12:51
French to English
+ ...
being able to correct wrong answers is important Nov 14, 2005

Rosa Maria Duenas Rios wrote:

... and my reason was simple, I thought the answer chosen and entered in the glossaries was wrong. So I included a note.

I am glad that we can do this after questions have been closed, otherwise, just because we did not get to the question in time, there would be no way of letting people know that not everyone agrees to the term chosen.


I've done the same a number of times for grossly wrong answers to medical questions. There is always a chance that the Asker will have time to correct his or her text. I then add the correct translation to my personal glossary.


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Michele Fauble  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:51
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
Add the answer with most agrees to the glossary Nov 14, 2005

writeaway wrote:



there is one case I know where the Asker simply refuses to provide the answer she found (I've asked several times) and yet actually asked someone else to provide an answer under the same circumstances, even though she wasn't even one of those who answered!



I think I know which question writeaway is referring to. If the asker closes the question because the answer was found elsewhere, but refuses to provide the answer that she found, then I think there should be a way to enter a proposed answer that has gotten several agrees (in this case the only answer proposed, and with 6 agrees) to the glossary. I'm not arguing that the answerer should necessarily get points for the answer, but as Kim says

The answers also belong to the community as a translation resource for future glossary searchers.


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moken  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:51
English to Spanish
+ ...
'Contribute to this entry' feature Nov 14, 2005

Hi Rosa María,

Rosa Maria Duenas Rios wrote:

... and my reason was simple, I thought the answer chosen and entered in the glossaries was wrong. So I included a note.

I am glad that we can do this after questions have been closed, otherwise, just because we did not get to the question in time, there would be no way of letting people know that not everyone agrees to the term chosen.


I have only recently realised there is a feature in the top right-hand corner when you visit a closed question that has a glossary entry: 'Contribute to this entry'

I am yet to use it, but when you click it a window opens which reads as follows:

----------------------------------------------
Term: xxxxxx
Answer: xxxxx

Submit a Peer Review (agree disagree neutral)
Comment on this entry (up to 255 chars)
Optional: Submit a definition:
Optional: Submit an example sentence:

There are no reviews for this entry.
----------------------------------------------

I am yet to use the function and am unaware how long it's been around, but surely this is an interesting alternative for entering comments on questions that have already been closed.

Can anybody who has use it provide a little more feedback on how it works, in terms of future reference, i.e. how does it appear when you search a 'commented' term on ProZ.com Search?

TIA

Álvaro ))


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Tsogt Gombosuren  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 04:51
Member (2004)
English to Mongolian
+ ...
A Great Idea! This idea should be implemented. Dec 28, 2005

Marijke Singer wrote:

So maybe there should be some mechanism by which an asker cannot close a question without providing a glossary entry.


Is this idea being considered by proz.com staff?
Shall we vote on this?


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Walter Landesman  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 07:51
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
I have used it. Dec 28, 2005

Álvaro Blanch wrote:


I am yet to use the function and am unaware how long it's been around, but surely this is an interesting alternative for entering comments on questions that have already been closed.

Can anybody who has use it provide a little more feedback on how it works, in terms of future reference, i.e. how does it appear when you search a 'commented' term on ProZ.com Search?

TIA

Álvaro ))

I have used this feature couple of times. I found it interesting for the same reasons you stated.
However, when I wanted to check back, I did not find any reference in the glossaries or searchs. Only if I checked "Edit this glossary" again.

There used to be another feature: search, glossary, a box stating that "a member has made a comment or voted negative/affirmative on this glossary". Then, you could -if you wanted- read these comments. It vanished with no notice.

So, Álvaro, I am not sure how useful the feature is the way it is now.

Feliz Año,

Walter

[Edited at 2005-12-28 11:45]


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