Client's Paypal-to-Proz's Paypal=Proz's Moneybooker Account-to-Translator's Moneybooker Account
Thread poster: Ehab Tantawy

Ehab Tantawy  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:34
Member (2006)
English to Arabic
+ ...
Jun 21, 2007

Hi All

As we have Kudoz and Wallet options or feature, i suggest to do an internal bridge for payments that requires Paypal, where Proz.com create a payment feature where there will be a trusted Moneybooker account for Proz.com, into which clients send from their Paypal to Proz.com's Paypal, the transfer then will carry predetermined/established unique data for each translator, will be created as a privacy agreement between Proz.com and the translator who will benefit from such feature and where he will send his unique ID to the client which will be attached with the transfer that will be directed to Proz.com Moneybooker, the Proz.com sends this payment to the translator's Moneybooker account but after deducting a %, that Proz.com will suggest to be applicable for all and agreed previously.

May you say you are made or something like that, but this will be good for:

1-Those loss jobs says that Paypal is a MUST to join the job(s) and Paypal is not available at their area (Like me and many others).

2-Proz.com will be benefited from this feature by gaining money for facilitating the payments through their Paypal into our Moneybooker's account(s).

3-Please be relax, be patient and do not insult me.

Thanks for your time.

Regards,
Ehab
===
After 7 posts:
==========
I suggest, if applicable, to be named Proz Payment Bridge (PPB)

It is in the form of:

Client's Paypal-to-Proz.com's Paypal=Proz.com's Moneybooker-to-Translator's Moneybooker/Other Payment Method(s).

I think, regardless laws or restrictions, it is one of the facilities Proz.com will add to facilitate the freelance/platinum members/paid members in their work as the other features as Kudoz, Forums and Blue Board that enhance freelance work through the site.

Any discussion will be apprciated.

Thanks for all.

Ehab

[Edited at 2007-06-21 21:22]

[Edited at 2007-06-21 21:25]


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Evija Rimšāne  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 21:34
Member
English to Latvian
good idea! Jun 21, 2007

Hi Ehab,

Thanks for continuing the subject regarding Paypal issues; I can see that I am not the one concerned, and this is rather common concern.
I think your idea is not bad!

Evija


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Rui de Carvalho  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 19:34
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Why not pressing Paypal instead? Jun 21, 2007

I think the big problem for Evija has little to do with clients but with Paypal, or maybe Latvian banking system.
Electronic payment systems are now largely available and much cheaper than traditional systems, so is normal that most people prefer to use it.
If Paypal does not support Latvian banks, may be their fault - if so, a complaint (or a lot of them for that matter) before the European Commission may help. Or may be the fault of the Latvian banking system, thus the pressure shall be applied on it instead.
I wouldn't probably know how to live today without Paypal or Moneybookers.


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 21:34
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
+ ...
Another option Jun 21, 2007

Why not ask the client to use moneybookers?

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Evija Rimšāne  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 21:34
Member
English to Latvian
not what I meant Jun 21, 2007

Rui de Carvalho wrote:

I think the big problem for Evija has little to do with clients but with Paypal, or maybe Latvian banking system.
Electronic payment systems are now largely available and much cheaper than traditional systems, so is normal that most people prefer to use it.
If Paypal does not support Latvian banks, may be their fault - if so, a complaint (or a lot of them for that matter) before the European Commission may help. Or may be the fault of the Latvian banking system, thus the pressure shall be applied on it instead.
I wouldn't probably know how to live today without Paypal or Moneybookers.


Thanks for your remark, however, Paypal is not very supportive and interested to solve my "big problem", I have contacted them several times, and they cannot provide neither clear ground for excluding Latvia from their "trusted countries" list, nor give me any practical information regarding possible changes and revision of their rules.
Well, I know how to live without Paypal, I have my bank accounts, and I can use Moneybookers too (which USA companies can't), however, it is better using Paypal (or MB) with minimum fees for transferring funds, and not bank accounts with fees of EUR 10 and more for any transaction.

However, the bottom line of my "big problem" is that I cannot bid on the projects where the only means of payment is Paypal, and it is not an advantage for me at all...

[Edited at 2007-06-21 21:03]


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Uldis Liepkalns  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 21:34
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
Sadly there are more countries Jun 21, 2007

in the World where PayPal doesn't work than the opposite. And PayPal kinda works in Latvia- but the strange way round- I can send money, but not receive. I mean- I cannot even RECEIVE any money from any other PayPal users into my PayPal account, I don't mean withdrawing to my Latvia bank option.

OTOH, Moneybookers doesn't have any problems of this kind and serves way more World countries than PayPal.

So I think much more simple option than to involve European Commission is to persuade our clients to set up Moneybookers accounts

As to ProZ taking up suggested banking functions- in my opinion it is way out of ProZ scope, that would mean for ProZ to set up a whole Banking Department (not to mention possible legal problems- I'm not a specialist in the US Law, but possibly that may require for ProZ to obtain Bank Licence...)

Uldis, Latvia



Rui de Carvalho wrote:

I think the big problem for Evija has little to do with clients but with Paypal, or maybe Latvian banking system.
Electronic payment systems are now largely available and much cheaper than traditional systems, so is normal that most people prefer to use it.
If Paypal does not support Latvian banks, may be their fault - if so, a complaint (or a lot of them for that matter) before the European Commission may help. Or may be the fault of the Latvian banking system, thus the pressure shall be applied on it instead.
I wouldn't probably know how to live today without Paypal or Moneybookers.


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 21:34
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
+ ...
Re: Evija Rimšāne Jun 21, 2007

Evija Rimšāne wrote:

... I have my bank accounts, and I can use Moneybookers too (which USA companies can't), ...



I have clients from the USA and they make payments to me through moneybookers.


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Evija Rimšāne  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 21:34
Member
English to Latvian
perhaps Jun 21, 2007

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:

Evija Rimšāne wrote:

... I have my bank accounts, and I can use Moneybookers too (which USA companies can't), ...



I have clients from the USA and they make payments to me through moneybookers.


Sorry, maybe I am not aware of everything regarding MB, and I am happy for you that you can receive money via MB from USA, however, several agencies from USA have stated that they cannot use MB, only Paypal
MAYBE -- they are too lazy to create an account?... Well, that's interesting...


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Uldis Liepkalns  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 21:34
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
One more option Jun 21, 2007

Money wire transfer from the US may be expensive indeed- up to $ 70, however cashing cheques in Latvia (actually this kind of transactions in Latvia died long ago without even being properly born- I not so long ago went to my bank and said I want to get a cheque book- they looked at me as at one just arrived from Mars and told... "err, we don't use anything suchlike already for 7 years..."), also is not very pleasant occupation- you have to pay a personal visit to the bank (which we normally do only on 2 occasions- when opening and closing the account), standing for hours in line, filling and stamping heap of forms (in short all of them saying "yes, I indeed want this cheque to be cashed to my account), then it takes one more month for money to arrive and the bank withdraws from the sum up to $ 30.

I know it is different in the US and (partially) UK, but here it is so.

But one more and safe option my US clients have used is Travellers Cheques sent by snail-mail (for reasonable, but not so small amounts) filled out in my name- I went to the bank, sold them (commission fee was negligible) and money appeared into my account right away and even if the letters would have gone missing or were stolen- no problem- no one else but me could have cashed these cheques.

Uldis

Evija Rimšāne wrote:
MAYBE -- they are too lazy to create an account?... Well, that's interesting...


[Rediģēts plkst. 2007-06-21 21:44]


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Evija Rimšāne  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 21:34
Member
English to Latvian
sorry Jun 21, 2007

I am truly sorry for being misunderstood: I don't want to change the world, not at all, I'm just suggesting to Proz staff members implementing a notice informing outsourcers about such difficulties when they are posting a new job proposal, for example, from English into Latvian and indicating "Payment: ONLY via Paypal". It would be really great if they knew that it's kind of impossible if an En-Lv translator lives in Latvia. Maybe the outsourcer could think of any other means of payment.
Unless someone is ready to do the job for free:)

Cheers!

P.S. And yes, it might seem strange, indeed, but Paypal is really discriminating Latvia [and some other countries] exactly like that, no more and no less.... I DO feel discriminated They are saying it is because of their money laundering policy.

[Edited at 2007-06-21 22:00]


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Rui de Carvalho  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 19:34
English to Portuguese
+ ...
I agree with Uldis Jun 21, 2007

that nothing prevent an American client from getting a Moneybookers account, but what he explains about a Latvian Paypal account still seems quite strange, I would say discriminatory, to me. And Europe still has some laws governing the activity of finantial entities (much better laws than US, anyway) as well as an ECB, whose rules as far as I know prevent that kind of discrimination.
But no doubt we all shall press US clients to forget their Stone Age habit of using checks and [only] modern payment methods that are American by origin.


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 20:34
English to German
+ ...
ProZ.com is not a provider of financial services Jun 22, 2007

Hi Ehab and all,
Obviously, this is something for Henry to decide. What I would point out is that ProZ.com is not a financial services provider. One could argue that such an internal transfer facility amounts to a banking service (in Germany, for example, this could be illegal unless you have a bank license - not sure about the rules in the US, of course).

The main issue I see is the financial risk exposure that ProZ.com would assume under such an arrangement. Several years ago, the wallet could be used to receive and make payments; this was withdrawn after an attempt to abuse the service. I see a similar problem here.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Umutay Midinova
Kyrgyzstan
Local time: 00:34
English to Russian
+ ...
Problems with Moneybookers Jun 22, 2007

[Sorry, maybe I am not aware of everything regarding MB, and I am happy for you that you can receive money via MB from USA, however, several agencies from USA have stated that they cannot use MB, only Paypal
MAYBE -- they are too lazy to create an account?... Well, that's interesting... [/quote]


The main objection of American clients against Moneybookers is that their banks -- some of them -- supposing, that the clients make payments through them (I don't understand in what a manner) -- keep to the opinion that Moneybookers support gambling games and it is so since it is an usual and preferable way of payment at Internet sites handling with poker and etc. And it is not the heaviest blame among those listed by one American client when I offered it as my way of payment. Somehow I am not inclined to reveal them here. I don't believe it is true.


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JaneTranslates  Identity Verified
Puerto Rico
Local time: 14:34
Member (2005)
Spanish to English
+ ...
What is the wallet for? Jun 22, 2007

Ralf Lemster wrote:

Several years ago, the wallet could be used to receive and make payments; this was withdrawn after an attempt to abuse the service. I see a similar problem here.

Best regards,
Ralf


So, could you (Ralf) or anyone please explain to me what the "wallet" feature is for? I've been trying (in a desultory fashion) to discover that ever since I first registered on ProZ. FAQs don't help.

Thanks for any info.

Jane


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Boris Sigalov
Local time: 21:34
English to Russian
Educate your clients Jun 23, 2007

Evija Rimšāne wrote:

Sorry, maybe I am not aware of everything regarding MB, and I am happy for you that you can receive money via MB from USA, however, several agencies from USA have stated that they cannot use MB, only Paypal

MAYBE -- they are too lazy to create an account?... Well, that's interesting...


Evija, I have lots of US clients who send me money via MB without any problems (though in the beginning they knew nothing about this service).

[Edited at 2007-06-23 08:52]


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