Question "just closed"
Thread poster: Christel Zipfel

Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
Sep 2, 2007

I came across someone in my main LP who has asked 35 questions, about 20 of them "just closed", i.e. "without grading"/"answer found elsewhere", of course without telling us which answer has been found, and although there had been one or more answers already.

Now, isn't this an abuse? I know this issue has been discussed before, but nothing has changed. It is so frustrating when you are trying to help someone, losing some of your time of course, and suddenly the question is closed and you don't even know - and never will - which answer has been found (a different one? or maybe the same?). This leaves me every time puzzled and frustrated. Why aren't we supposed to know the answer the asker has found eventually? Couldn't it be made mandatory to give the solution choosen before being able to close a question that has already been answered?


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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 21:19
German to English
Let common sense prevail Sep 2, 2007

Hi Christel - it certainly is abuse, and although it seems we don't have a specific rule against this kind of behavior, I'd say we should let common sense prevail, and if he doesn't respond to a polite request by a moderator to respect his colleagues and the spirit of KudoZ, this person's right to ask any more questions should be blocked until he has settled his accounts.

Kim


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Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Ok, but it's not against the rules Sep 2, 2007

Kim Metzger wrote:

Hi Christel - it certainly is abuse, and although it seems we don't have a specific rule against this kind of behavior, I'd say we should let common sense prevail, and if he doesn't respond to a polite request by a moderator to respect his colleagues and the spirit of KudoZ, this person's right to ask any more questions should be blocked until he has settled his accounts.

Kim


so why should we bother a moderator? It's only "unethical" in my opinion, and I want the rules to be changed.


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Nikki Graham  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:19
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
My bugbear too Sep 3, 2007

Christel Zipfel wrote:

I came across someone in my main LP who has asked 35 questions, about 20 of them "just closed", i.e. "without grading"/"answer found elsewhere", of course without telling us which answer has been found, and although there had been one or more answers already.

Now, isn't this an abuse? This leaves me every time puzzled and frustrated. Why aren't we supposed to know the answer the asker has found eventually? Couldn't it be made mandatory to give the solution choosen before being able to close a question that has already been answered?


I totally agree. It is not only extraordinarily frustrating to find that the term you are looking for is in the glossary (thus raising your spirits, you might not have to research the answer yourself after all), but that the asker has rejected all answers (and rightly so), stated "answer found elsewhere" and not had the common decency to say what that was. (Frankly, I suspect that in some cases, the asker has no idea what the correct answer is, and therefore chooses the wimp out option Proz conveniently provides him/her with so that they do not have to lose face publicly).

Therefore, I agree with Christel's suggestion. If you ask a Kudoz question, you should have to either choose one of the answers stating that this is the one you decided to use, or state which term you actually put in the translation you handed in.

I would just like to add that I have put some askers on my filtered list for doing this, as it irks me a lot. Don't ask if you are not prepared to give in return.

[Edited at 2007-09-03 08:18]


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marie-christine périé  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 04:19
English to French
+ ...
Seconded Sep 3, 2007

Thank you, Christel, for mentioning it again.
Here is what Mats Wiman wrote on August 6, 2006:

***The least one can do after maybe several colleagues have tried to help you is to demand to be enlightened about what was the end result and "Found elsewere" is truly unsatisfactory and in essence rude.
Therefore that option ought to be changed into at least:
"The word/phrase I finally used was:........................................."
"Reason:....................................................................................."***

As can be seen here :
http://www.proz.com/topic/52746?start=0&float=
quite a lot of us greeted the suggestion as highly constructive.

And here we are just over a year later...


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ahmadwadan.com  Identity Verified
Kuwait
Local time: 05:19
English to Arabic
+ ...
I do agree Sep 3, 2007

I do agree on changing the site's methodology regarding closing questions and make it mandatory for asker to provide such answer found elsewhere.

Kind regards
Ahmad wadan


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Gianni Pastore  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 04:19
Member (2007)
English to Italian
Kim, Sep 3, 2007

Kim Metzger wrote:

Hi Christel - it certainly is abuse, and although it seems we don't have a specific rule against this kind of behavior, I'd say we should let common sense prevail, and if he doesn't respond to a polite request by a moderator to respect his colleagues and the spirit of KudoZ, this person's right to ask any more questions should be blocked until he has settled his accounts.

Kim


My common sense says that these people get filtered straightaway. I don't even want them to appear in my Kudoz questions list anymore. Ciao


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Vadim Poguliaev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 05:19
English to Russian
stakeholders' attention Sep 3, 2007

The idea of stiffening the rules of closing questions without grading have been raised many times. And it should be raised as many times as needed to get staff attention.
It's very simple, if you found answer elsewhere, good for you. But you MUST specify it on closing. And there should be no 'Other' reasons.
For now best solution would be filtering away that particular asker.


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sabina moscatelli  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 04:19
Member (2004)
German to Italian
+ ...
Dear Christel, Sep 3, 2007

I fully agree with you. When at least one answer is supplied, the option "Just Closed" should not be allowed unless the alternative solution is clearly indicated by the user.

This is not the only kind of abuse in the LP you mention

In some cases I was assigned 3 points and then my suggestion was added to the Glossary as such... why not assign 4, then?

And why do some users tend to assign points to the same answerer, even if your solution clearly appears to be the best one, as confirmed by peer agreements?


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Claire Cox
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:19
French to English
+ ...
I agree Sep 3, 2007

I agree entirely. If I ever have to close a question without grading, as can sometimes happen, I always put a note explaining what I've found (if anything!) and thanking those who have tried to help. I feel it's the very least you can do after other people have put themselves out on your behalf!

Exactly the same thing happened to me last week when I question I'd answered was just closed. There were at least three perfectly good answers, but the answerer didn't bother to say what she'd eventually opted for. It is certainly a very selfish approach and not at all in the spirit of KudoZ. It also makes me disinclined to answer questions for that specific asker again, although I haven't quite gone as far as to filter them.... I also only found out by accident that the question had been "just closed" - do we not receive notification in these cases either?


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DianeGM  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:19
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
I agree too Sep 3, 2007

Its very rude behaviour.

I have rarely asked questions, but usually because I didn't have to as the terms I was seeking were already present in the glossary with a translation suitable for my purposes. I have and do make extensive use of the glossary I am very grateful to all its contributers. This kind of support that we provide each other with here is absolutely invaluable in my opinion and I would hate to see the actions of some who obviously don't repect the value of such support potentially limiting future contributions.

I think everyone must be encouraged to give a suitable and proper conclusion on closing a question, I don't know if that necessitates changing the existing options though, as I think most of us do respect the existing system and use it in the proper "spirit".


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writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
Selfish is the word Sep 5, 2007

Claire Cox wrote:

I agree entirely. If I ever have to close a question without grading, as can sometimes happen, I always put a note explaining what I've found (if anything!) and thanking those who have tried to help. I feel it's the very least you can do after other people have put themselves out on your behalf!

Exactly the same thing happened to me last week when I question I'd answered was just closed. There were at least three perfectly good answers, but the answerer didn't bother to say what she'd eventually opted for. It is certainly a very selfish approach and not at all in the spirit of KudoZ. It also makes me disinclined to answer questions for that specific asker again, although I haven't quite gone as far as to filter them.... I also only found out by accident that the question had been "just closed" - do we not receive notification in these cases either?


For me, the proverbial cake was taken by one Kudoz user/abuser who refused to provide the answer she used when she closed with "answer found elsewhere" and then days later, had the nerve to ask someone else who closed the same way (and for a question this rude selfish person didn't even participate in). However her request was graciously answered by the person who closed! Unfortunately this gesture had no effect on her own stubborn. selfish refusal to provide the "answer" she actually used her own question.


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