A humble suggestion (edited version) for quality improvement of the ProZ Glossary
Thread poster: Sven Petersson

Sven Petersson  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 01:10
English to Swedish
+ ...
Feb 12, 2003

\"A humble suggestion\" was first published on ProZ Swedish Forum. It was viewed by 87 ProZ members and got 7 replies on the Forum, out of which 6 were positive and 1 was undecided. It further generated 6 private communications out of which 5 were positive and one was undecided. A number of suggestions for improvements and requests for clarifications have inspired me to edit and republish on the Proz.com Suggestions Forum.Background: What is entered into the ProZ glossary is, according to critical voices, decided by the person least competent of judging what should be entered, the person who asked the term question. In many cases this is not true but the criticism is not entirely without merit and substance.Proposal:Treat the current ProZ Glossary as raw material (the B-list), to be edited into a proper glossary (the A-list). Appoint an editing committee for each language combination AND \"Field\" (speciality) consisting of:- Those 3 persons who have the highest KudoZ score for the language combination AND \"Field\", plus

- 4 further translators appointed by the first 3 in consensus.Chose, after eliminating, when relevant, the Asker and the KudoZ Winner, by random 3 of the above 7 editors for evaluating the quality of the answer for each term on the B-list. Let them chose between the following alternatives:- Correct

- Incorrect

- Don’t knowMove term to A-list if it gets 3 \"Correct\" OR 2 \"Correct\" and 1 \"Don’t know\"

Move term to C-list if it gets 3 \"Incorrect\" OR 2 \"Incorrect\" and 1 \"Don’t know\" AND repost it as a question from \"the Editors\"

Leave term on B-list and mark it \"reviewed by editors, failed to qualify for A-list\", if neither of above applies.Let them further, for A-list entries only:- Correct the \"Field\" content, if needed
- Transform the term, when needed, to singular and indefinite form
- Assign gender to term in those languages in which it is relevantPlease note that the proposed procedure intrinsically excludes any other form of editing.Motivation and awards:For Editors: Create a new kind of point, say \"EditZ\", and award 1 EditZ to each participating editor for each term question on which the editors reached consensus.

For KudoZ Winners: Create a new kind of point, say \"QualiZ\", and award 1 Qualiz to the KudoZ Winner for each term that makes the A-list.Please note that the proposed procedure intrinsically excludes any change of KudoZ points already awarded and any change of the current KudoZ procedure.I have no illusions about that this proposal, in its current form, is without scope for improvements, but I think it is good enough for an evaluation test and I do suggest that the procedure outlined above should be tested.Would it be possible for ProZ to arrange so that it could be- tested on English>Swedish in the Fields: Medical, Law/Patents and Bus/Financial

- reviewed and improved

- tested on English>Swedish in the remaining fields

- reviewed and improved

- tested on a combination of two major languages and all Fields

- reviewed and improved

- and finally implemented for the whole ProZ Glossary?Sven.



[ This Message was edited byn2003-02-12 11:09]



[ This Message was edited byn2003-02-12 12:12]

[ This Message was edited by:on2003-02-12 12:24]


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Andy Lemminger  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 17:10
Member (2002)
English to German
Great suggestion Feb 12, 2003

This sounds very interesting and would definitely improve the glossaries.



I am only not so sure about the EditZ and the QualiZ... You want to avoid that ProZ-scores of these evaluators rise? That\'s a point because they don\'t compete with others but would they benefit from EditZ and QualiZ in any way?



Andy


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Williamson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:10
Flemish to English
+ ...
Excellent proposal Feb 12, 2003

Excellent proposal if at least one of the 3 who have the highest Kudoz score and one of the 4 other translators can prove expertise in the subject by academic training (degree) and proven experience. Your reasoning would not hold if the 7 judges are layman with regard to the subject-matter. How can a person give marks on a term with regard on nuclear power-plants for instance, if he or she does not know anything about the subject?

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Mats Wiman  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 01:10
Member (2000)
German to Swedish
+ ...

MODERATOR
Absolutely the best we've seen on this subject! Feb 12, 2003

I only hope Henry can support and implement it, because it\'s a prerequisite.



Mats


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Sonja Tomaskovic  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 01:10
English to German
+ ...
Very good propsal Feb 12, 2003

Even though I do have my doubts about the technical implementation. And I am also concerned if all Proz members will accept this procedure. But definitely the best proposal on improving the glossaries so far.



Sonja


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 22:10
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
How I use the KudoZ glossaries Feb 12, 2003

Dear Sven,



your proposal is very original, if implemented could help to improve the reliability of some entries in KudoZ.



A major problem that I see is the need for a large amount of time by a fairly small number of volunteer: the lucky (or unlucky) ones in charge of reviewing many thousands of entries.



In my personal case, I find the KudoZ questions and answers very useful and inspiring as they are.

In particular, the fact that all terms are available not as a dry list of terms and \"right translations\", but with a trail of discussions, opinions, references, agreement and disagreements.

All these components make interesting reading on their own merit and I found inspiration in all of them.



In general, there is no such thing as an absolute \'correct solution\', and each problem can be solved by a different term, perhaps suggested incorrectly in a question but inspiring and correct in other similar cases...



In short, I use the KudoZ database with a pinch of salt, just as the dictionaries, the Internet or any other reference source or advice received. On this respect, I think that a reviewing effort could take out something, rather than add value to it.



Gianfranco





[ This Message was edited by:on2003-02-12 11:52]


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Jacek Krankowski  Identity Verified
English to Polish
+ ...
Very realistic, Gianfranco! Feb 12, 2003

Regarding Sven\'s very commendable idea



Quote:


On 2003-02-12 10:58, ManuPro wrote:

if [the checkers] can prove expertise in the subject by academic training (degree) and proven experience.





I would definitely say not \"...and proven experience,\" but \"and/OR proven experience.\"



But I agree with Gianfranco:



Quote:


On 2003-02-12 11:25, gianfranco wrote:

A major problem that I see is the need for a large amount of time by a fairly small number of volunteer: the lucky (or unlucky) ones in charge of reviewing many thousands of entries.











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Åsa Gudmundsson
Local time: 01:10
English to Swedish
+ ...
Min tanke Feb 12, 2003

Personligen använder jag inte KudoZ till något annat än att fråga kollegor som kanske vet mer. De få gånger jag själv sökt i ordlistan har jag fått som svar att termen jag söker saknas. De svar jag får av kollegor kollar jag alltid upp, för att inte \"köpa grisen i säcken\" (Även om jag vet att ni alla är väldigt duktiga och erfarna översättare)



Jag har varit med om att den personen som svarat på min fråga fört in termen i ordlistan, dvs den personen som \"vet mest\" i det fallet.



Vad gäller förslaget om EditZ o.s.v. är jag neutral. Det vore bra om ordlistan endast innehöll helt korrekta översättningar, men för mej är det inte helt nödvändigt. Jag kan tänka mej att det kommer att krävas ett enormt arbete från de som är ansvariga och programmerar ProZ.



Med vänlig hälsning

Åsa Gudmundsson


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Monika Coulson  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:10
Member (2001)
English to Albanian
+ ...
This is a nice suggestion Feb 12, 2003

Thank you Sven for coming up with this great suggestion. This is wonderful and it will improve the quality of our ProZ.com glossaries, however, I hope that it will be implemented here. For small SC like mine (Albanian) it wouldn\'t be that difficult to do it, but IMHO, for large community it might mean a \"full time job\" for the moderator and the other ones who are chosen to help with it. Let\'s just hope that this will really happen.

Thank you again.

Monika


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 19:10
SITE FOUNDER
Reactions to Sven's proposal, in parts Feb 12, 2003

I would break your proposal into the following parts:



(1) Take the view that the current glossaries are the B-list



Response: OK. To be reflected with specific terminology, ex. what we have now are not the KuodZ \'glossaries\', but the KudoZ \'archives\'.



(2) Create screening rules and an application procedure to identify pros to be given glossary validation rights



Necessary for this proposal, and the most challenging part.



(3) Begin creating an A-list that is not only validated, but also includes glossary-like data such as gender, etc.



Yes, certainly worth doing.



(4) Set rules for systematic validation by multiple screened pros.



I expect your suggested approach, or a variation on it, would work.



------------



Step (1) is easy. Once a systematic means of accomplishing step (2) can be accomplished, (3) and (4) will follow.



Starting with experimentation in one language community is a good idea. I will write to you offline to discuss further.


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Dyran Altenburg  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:10
English to Spanish
+ ...
I like your proposal... Feb 12, 2003

...except this part:



Quote:


On 2003-02-12 10:39, sven wrote:

Appoint an editing committee for each language combination AND \"Field\" (speciality) consisting of:- Those 3 persons who have the highest KudoZ score for the language combination AND \"Field\", plus - 4 further translators appointed by the first 3 in consensus





Basically, how will you separate really good translators from \"point-grabbers\" whose only merit is having a lot of idle time in their hands?



What about translators who are experts in their field(s) but who do not actively participate in KudoZ for whatever reason?



My suggestion would be to choose editors based on the quality/accuracy of the answers of the participants, regardless of whether they are KudoZ leaders or not.

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Marcus Malabad  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 01:10
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
great idea Feb 12, 2003

but who would do it, Sven? I speak of my own SC, De>En. I can probably say with some degree of accuracy that the first four leaders (Kim, Uli, Tom, Darien) or even the first ten (including me) have too much on their hands to devote much time on this glossary revision that will make a difference.



I actually already revise De>En entries that I find incorrect, ungrammatical or just plain wrong. I do this if and when I encounter them after doing glossary searches. Otherwise, I just treat all entries as a road map that will lead me (or any potential glossary user) to the right direction. Not the final answer, mind you (although in many cases it is), but a compass...or to borrow my previous phrase in an old thread: \"the magnetic needle that will point to true north\".



With this said and doing as I do, namely, revising incorrect entries as you encounter them after glossary searches, we would come to some sort of reasonable \'compilation\' of terminological and syntactical entries. Your original idea may involve too much lexicographic work that might be too unrealistic given available time that we all have. (I used to work on a lexicon at university and it took us six months to cover just four letters!)



As Henry has pointed out, the word \'glossary\' may have become a misnomer given the present state of affairs. If we give it a neutral term like \'compilation\' above, we\'d be less inclined to go on a glossary-revising war path and take all entries with a grain of Dead Sea salt.



Let\'s wait for others to weigh in on this issue. This is really interesting.


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Tore Feuk  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:10
English to Swedish
+ ...
Good idea! Feb 14, 2003

I think this would definitely improve the glossary. The only potential problem is to get people to spend time on selecting the correct words, but in any case, it will be better than now.

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A humble suggestion (edited version) for quality improvement of the ProZ Glossary

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