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Suggestions for tweaks for the next contest
Thread poster: Sheila Wilson

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:52
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Sep 21, 2009

I'm all for the translation contest, but it seems to me that this part of the system has not been lovingly developed like most of ProZ - it seems to have got to the point of "well, that sort of works", then left.

If there's time and money in the budget before the next contest, perhaps this area could be tweaked a little. Suggestions and/or observed limitations:-

1. I received over 200 emails today - one for every tag comment! Fortunately, with Gmail they get bunched together so I didn't have to select each one for deletion. Not surprisingly, I didn't check each and every one, so if any are notifying me that my comment has been rejected, I'll never know. Please, please - just send rejections.

2. When you have original text and translation side-by-side, the tags cover the source and you can no longer see it - not very helpful at all.

3. Each time you select text for tagging, you have to then scroll to below the text to click on the agree/disagree icon. I don't know the technical limitations here, but that's a lot of scrolling.

4. Another scrolling limitation is that, once tagged, the text redisplays from the top. If you are tagging text near the bottom, again this is annoying - could it not return to the line tagged? BTW, I realise that this may not be a problem for all users (I have a rather small screen) but I doubt that I'm the only person affected.

5. When you enter a comment, a list comes up for you to choose already-entered text. "Great" I thought, until I discovered that these are KudoZ comments and my comments were not being carried from one entry to another. It's a frustrating timewaster to key in an identical remark 10-15 times, especially when it seems it ought to be easier.

6. It seems that you cannot normally edit your tag and/or comment - only delete it.

7. If you select an identical piece of text to an existing tagged piece, you will be informed. However, if the previous tag was the tiniest bit different (eg a comma included), it doesn't let you know until you've entered it, so you then have to delete yours and agree with the existing entry. Could we be advised if there is any overlap at all? Perhaps by highlighting the already-tagged text as soon as the mouse is on it?

8. Sometimes, the system prevents you from selecting a piece of text. An example was the word "good" which I found wrongly used twice in one paragraph, for different reasons. I really wanted to tag both but was not allowed to.

9. Personal notes can be added, but these cannot be made visible. IMO, these could be useful to the translator, as more general feedback eg style, register, terminology of the whole text.

10. As suggested elsewhere in the forum, although we obviously shouldn't vote for and tag our own submissions, it would be useful to be able to react to comments - one person has asked a specific question that I would like to address and can't.

11. How can I easily find my own submission? I'm obviously interested in the comments from others. Could we have a "My own submission" quick link, please?

I'm sure everyone agrees that that's quite enough for now! Sorry And, please, don't get the impression that I'm really fed up - it's just that I was a systems analyst in a former life and I think this area needs some TLC.


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:52
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
While we're on the subject ... Sep 21, 2009

I've had a small "Error" screen at least 5 times, followed by a selection of: "Loading ...." forever until I kill it; Firefox dies; something about a "script error".

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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 12:52
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
I haven't seen this but... Sep 21, 2009

Sheila Wilson wrote:
5. When you enter a comment, a list comes up for you to choose already-entered text. "Great" I thought, until I discovered that these are KudoZ comments and my comments were not being carried from one entry to another. It's a frustrating timewaster to key in an identical remark 10-15 times, especially when it seems it ought to be easier.


Are you sure this isn't just a function of your web browser?


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Maria Diaconu  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 13:52
English to Romanian
Function of the browser Sep 21, 2009

Samuel Murray wrote:

Sheila Wilson wrote:
5. When you enter a comment, a list comes up for you to choose already-entered text. "Great" I thought, until I discovered that these are KudoZ comments and my comments were not being carried from one entry to another. It's a frustrating timewaster to key in an identical remark 10-15 times, especially when it seems it ought to be easier.


Are you sure this isn't just a function of your web browser?



Hi Samuel, both you and Sheila are right: this is a function of the web browser, but: while it works for KudoZ comments, it does not work for those comments you enter when you evaluate contest entries. Theoretically, it should work in the same way.


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patyjs  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 05:52
Spanish to English
+ ...
I agree, Sep 21, 2009

and would point out that many of Sheila's suggestions have come up in feedback during and after previous contests (without looking it up, 2 through 7 at least).

I would add to Sheila's list another issue, also raised before, about the number of entries to be rated, especially since there seem to be more than ever in some pairs. There are 54 other entries in my pair and while the instructions do say, "Rate as many as you like", or words to that effect, I feel obliged to look at them all. So, then, how do I decide which to rate and which not?

Is there not some way to display a randomly pre-selected bunch of 10 to 15 entries to each rater, and request that ALL those are evaluated. That way all entries would have a similar number of ratings.

I admit to being rather overwhelmed at the thought of critically evaluating more than 50 similar texts.

Thanks

Paty


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Alessio Nunziato
Germany
Local time: 12:52
English to Italian
+ ...
different displaying order for each user Sep 21, 2009

patyjs wrote:

and would point out that many of Sheila's suggestions have come up in feedback during and after previous contests (without looking it up, 2 through 7 at least).

I would add to Sheila's list another issue, also raised before, about the number of entries to be rated, especially since there seem to be more than ever in some pairs. There are 54 other entries in my pair and while the instructions do say, "Rate as many as you like", or words to that effect, I feel obliged to look at them all. So, then, how do I decide which to rate and which not?

Is there not some way to display a randomly pre-selected bunch of 10 to 15 entries to each rater, and request that ALL those are evaluated. That way all entries would have a similar number of ratings.

I admit to being rather overwhelmed at the thought of critically evaluating more than 50 similar texts.

Thanks

Paty


I think the current system is perfect: all entries are shown to each user in one single page and above all "Entries are shown in a different order to each viewer", which guarantees that all entries will be read and rated.


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Susan Welsh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:52
Member (2008)
Russian to English
+ ...
replying to disagrees; dropdown menu for "like" Sep 22, 2009

Sheila, you CAN reply to someone who disagrees with something in your translation. Just click that you disagree with their disagree, and you'll get a menu that allows you to explain and give a URL if you want.

Another small annoyance: In the "likes" dropdown menu of reasons, the first one is "flows well," and then comes "good term choice." For me at least, 99% of reasons are the second, not the first. The first is sort of vague. Would be nice to put them in the opposite order, so there's not so much scrolling.

Now that I think about it, the first in "dislikes" is spelling, which is a category I seldom use. "Mistranslation" is more common. Spelling errors are pretty trivial anyhow.

Susan


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cc in nyc  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:52
French to English
Display does not ensure rating Sep 25, 2009

Alessio N. wrote:
l entries are shown to each user in one single page and above all "Entries are shown in a different order to each viewer", which guarantees that all entries will be read and rated. [/quote]

How does *displaying* an entry ensure that it will be *rated* ?


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:52
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Comments on your comments Sep 25, 2009

Susan Welsh wrote:

Sheila, you CAN reply to someone who disagrees with something in your translation.



Thanks Susan, I didn't think to do that as I didn't really want to agree/disagree, just to inform them of my reason for a particular choice - they might still disagree with the translation and I don't really feel I have the right to change the rating figures in any way. Still, it's better than nothing.

I agree with your point about the order of tag reasons - "good term" and "mistranslation" are the most useful. I'd quite like to see "repetition" and "wrong register" in the disagree menu, in place of some that I personally never use.

@loractraduit - displaying in a different order for each viewer certainly doesn't guarantee anything, although it does make it fairer. I'm sure everyone experiences some fatigue, being assiduous in rating the first and less so with the last (maybe even running out of spare time and not seeing the last). Since my marriage, I've been very against fixed orders as Wilson is invariably last - I'd hate to think my translation was suffering that fate due to my husband


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Natalia Mackevich  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:52
Member (2009)
English to Russian
+ ...
Further feedback Sep 25, 2009

Great suggestions! I have experienced the same problems, incuding script error. Also,
I would suggest arranging entries in increasing order, in accordance with the numbers of ratings, and not random. I believe it would solve the problem, as the first entries a participant would see would be least rated. If one rates the first 4 to 5 entries, the order changes, etc. etc.


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cc in nyc  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:52
French to English
View agrees/disagrees for "likes" Sep 25, 2009

I can view any comments that are entered with agrees/disagrees for "dislikes." but I can't view these comments for "dislikes." The best I get is the "liker's" comment, plus the number of "agrees and disagrees. But it would be interesting to see any "disagree" comments in particular.


Also, thank you, Sheila, for your responding to my question. The rarer language pairs have it easier!


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Lucia Leszinsky
SITE STAFF
Issue being addressed Sep 25, 2009

Hello loractraduit,

Thanks for reporting this issue. This is being looked into.

I appreciate your patience.

Regards,

Lucia


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Susan Welsh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:52
Member (2008)
Russian to English
+ ...
Keep order the way it is Sep 26, 2009

Natalia Mackevich wrote:

I would suggest arranging entries in increasing order, in accordance with the numbers of ratings, and not random. I believe it would solve the problem, as the first entries a participant would see would be least rated. If one rates the first 4 to 5 entries, the order changes, etc. etc.


I don't like this idea. For one thing, it would change continuously, making it very hard for the reviewer to keep track of what he or she is doing. Second, it would tend to penalize those with a low number of ratings, for whatever reason (at that point in the process). I assume you're talking about simply the number of ratings (quality of translation/accuracy of translation, with the stars), as opposed to the tagging, which has no bearing on final score.


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Susan Welsh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:52
Member (2008)
Russian to English
+ ...
Allow printing of entries Sep 26, 2009

I proposed this at the last contest, but here's another plug for it: Allow the individual entries to be printed by the reviewer.

It would be SO much easier to deal with this process and compare entries if I could read the entries on printed copy, make my notes, and then go to the computer to make the relevant tagging, rating, etc. For me at least, the whole thing would be much less decorticated than it is now. (When I grew up, before the invention of the wheel, people still used to read books and things like that, not just screens.)


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Lucia Leszinsky
SITE STAFF
Comments in Agree/Disagree posts visible for Like/Dislike tags Sep 26, 2009

Hello loractraduit,

I just want to inform you that the issue with comments accompanying 'Agree/Disagree' posts in tags has been fixed. You should be able to see comments now for 'Agree/Disagree' post in both Like and Dislike tags.

Give it a try and let me know how it goes.

Have a good weekend!

Regards,,

Lucia


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