Neutral comments sorely needed
Thread poster: Ambrose Li

Ambrose Li  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 18:28
Chinese to English
+ ...
Jan 28, 2013

We sorely need the ability to reply to a like/dislike with a neutral comment. Currently, very often we can’t really honestly do anything to the tags even if we disagree with the tagging. Just a sampling of why we can’t honestly put a disagree even if we are disagreeing:

– Someone tagged an error. An error indeed exists, but it’s not the error described in the tag. (i.e., the tagger misunderstood the translation, and possibly also the source text)

– Someone tagged an error. An error indeed exists, but it’s not the kind of error tagged in the tag. (e.g., a mistranslation tagged as spelling)

– Someone tagged an error that refers to several things (such as the omission of a whole segment which consists of a few parts). A couple of things in the description are true, but the rest is false.

– Someone created a tag that contains nothing but a question. (Yes, this actually happened, more than once.)

We are currently forced to reply with an Agree or a Disagree, but in all of these cases what we need is either both an agree and a disagree, or a neutral comment. It’s wrong to have to reply with a disagree (or an agree) in any of such cases.

(Obviously, questions are neither likes nor dislikes in the first place. We don’t just need the ability to reply to a tag with a neutral comment; we probably also need the ability to do create neutral tags.)

[Edited at 2013-01-28 06:07 GMT]


 

Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:28
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Wouldn't a discussion be nice? Jan 28, 2013

I agree with Ambrose's suggestion, and I'd even go a step further. Wouldn't it be nice to have a possibility to really discuss individual decisions? The way the KudoZ system works, with its comments and replies to comments, could be a possible example. Neutral comments and the possibility to edit comments would be one first step in this direction.

[Bearbeitet am 2013-01-28 16:25 GMT]


 

Alexander Onishko  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:28
Member (2007)
Russian to English
+ ...
No Jan 28, 2013

efreitag wrote:

I agree with Ambrose's suggestion, and I'd even go a step further. Wouldn't it be nice to have a possibility to really discuss individual decisions? The way the KudoZ system works, with its comments and replies to comments, could be a possible example. Neutral comments and the possibility to edit comments would be one first step in this direction.

[Bearbeitet am 2013-01-28 16:25 GMT]


Guys, please stop iticon_smile.gif

If we add discussions each entry will turn to be in the end something similar to live journal discussions - without start, end and any sense in it.

The current system is, of course, not perfect but let it be as is.


 

Alexander Onishko  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:28
Member (2007)
Russian to English
+ ...
No need to complicate the system Jan 28, 2013

Ambrose Li wrote:

We sorely need the ability to reply to a like/dislike with a neutral comment. Currently, very often we can’t really honestly do anything to the tags even if we disagree with the tagging. Just a sampling of why we can’t honestly put a disagree even if we are disagreeing:

– Someone tagged an error. An error indeed exists, but it’s not the error described in the tag. (i.e., the tagger misunderstood the translation, and possibly also the source text)

– Someone tagged an error. An error indeed exists, but it’s not the kind of error tagged in the tag. (e.g., a mistranslation tagged as spelling)

– Someone tagged an error that refers to several things (such as the omission of a whole segment which consists of a few parts). A couple of things in the description are true, but the rest is false.

– Someone created a tag that contains nothing but a question. (Yes, this actually happened, more than once.)

We are currently forced to reply with an Agree or a Disagree, but in all of these cases what we need is either both an agree and a disagree, or a neutral comment. It’s wrong to have to reply with a disagree (or an agree) in any of such cases.

(Obviously, questions are neither likes nor dislikes in the first place. We don’t just need the ability to reply to a tag with a neutral comment; we probably also need the ability to do create neutral tags.)

[Edited at 2013-01-28 06:07 GMT]


No need to complicate the systemicon_smile.gif A disagree comment from your side will fit perfectly for all situations described above.


 

Ambrose Li  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 18:28
Chinese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Editing comments Jan 29, 2013

efreitag wrote:

Neutral comments and the possibility to edit comments would be one first step in this direction.


Actually we already have the ability to edit comments, although we do have to jump through some unnecessary hoops to do it.

Say I entered a comment and the system decided that what I entered was too long (without telling me before I hit the Save button). So I wanted to make it shorter so that people can actually figure out what I was talking about. To fix your comment (let’s say it’s a Disagree for the purpose of this illustration):

1. Find your comment and copy it somewhere
2. Hit Agree (i.e., the opposite of what you want to say), put some text in the comment to the effect that you are just trying to edit your comment and not really agreeing, then press Save
3. Wait a few seconds, then do the same thing but hit Disagree (i.e., what you really want to say)
4. Enter a shorter version of your comment, then hit Save

To edit an Agree comment the procedure is similar; just substitute Disagree for Agree and Agree for Disagree.

Of course, proper support for the editing of comments would be vastly superior to this stupid hack.

[Edited at 2013-01-29 03:10 GMT]


 

Jared Tabor
Local time: 19:28
SITE STAFF
Tags can now be edited until they have received an agree or disagree Jan 30, 2013

You can now edit a tag you have made until it has received an agree or disagree; you will see an edit icon next to the removal option on the tag, and clicking on it will allow you to edit the like/dislike state of the tag as well as the comment.

I'm not sure I see the advantage of introducing neutral tags or comments, since it seems tagging and the agree/disagree system would take care of the cases given as examples. What do others think?


 

Josephine Cassar  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:28
Member (2012)
Italian to English
+ ...
Agree/disagree/neutral Jan 30, 2013

These points are sometimes made by people who make mistakes themselves, so how can they verify other people's work? I do not agree with a lengthy discussion or a more complicated system where you hit the opposite that you want to say.

 

emilia de paola
Italy
Local time: 00:28
Member (2007)
English to Italian
+ ...
Evaluation should be made by competent people, not by everyone! Jan 30, 2013

I definitely agree with Josephine about the fact that points are sometimes made by people who make mistakes themselves and who are not able to verify other people's work. I am incredibly surprised about the ignorance of a lot of people who vote and who have disagreed with correct Italian forms suggesting incorrect ones. I didn't think I should have had to defend even correct forms reported in grammars and dictionaries!

Besides I decided to use a slightly literary style which is used by the author in the source text and it has been regarded as *mistranslations* whereas it has been done on purpose!

What's more, as I took part in the contest I decided not to vote and evaluate because I could be interested in destroying other translations (this happens even unconsciously), which other translators have done. I really think people who have translated should not be allowed to correct and vote.


 

Roland Nienerza  Identity Verified

Local time: 00:28
English to German
+ ...
system is ok as it stands - Feb 1, 2013

In cases as described by the poster, e.g. that a tagger commented on the wrong word, had misunderstood the source and/or the translation etc., a Disagree with that tag can be given and one has the possibility to comment on other people's Disagrees - and that is fair enough and sufficient.

[Edited at 2013-02-02 00:32 GMT]


 

Roland Nienerza  Identity Verified

Local time: 00:28
English to German
+ ...
largely agreeing - Feb 1, 2013

emilia de paola wrote:

I definitely agree with Josephine about the fact that points are sometimes made by people who make mistakes themselves and who are not able to verify other people's work. I am incredibly surprised about the ignorance of a lot of people who vote and who have disagreed with correct Italian forms suggesting incorrect ones. I didn't think I should have had to defend even correct forms reported in grammars and dictionaries!


I have experienced such comments a few times too for my submissions.

Besides I decided to use a slightly literary style which is used by the author in the source text and it has been regarded as *mistranslations* whereas it has been done on purpose!


id.

What's more, as I took part in the contest I decided not to vote and evaluate because I could be interested in destroying other translations (this happens even unconsciously), which other translators have done. I really think people who have translated should not be allowed to correct and vote.


This, Emilia, is indeed a tricky matter. I had already thought along this line too. -

When I see the sometimes extraordinarily grotesque submissions and also the often extraordinarily grotesque comments - negative and positive alike - I find it hard not make a point. - And, what is more, the possibility for a poster to reply to tags that he received should certainly be maintained.

But I think it would be a good idea to exclude posters from ranking in the qualifacation round and - I am not sure whether this is possible anyhow - from voting in the final round, if they have come so far.


 

sarfee007
Local time: 03:28
English to Urdu
nice suggestion Mar 2, 2013

nice suggestion but it will further complicate the system ,,

 


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