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Plus features: Announcing the SecurePRO™ program
Thread poster: Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 15:33
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
OK. Dec 16, 2016

Tom in London wrote:

Please notify us when that happens, so that we don't have to keep checking our profiles.

I'll let you know!


 
memond
memond  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:33
Member (2015)
English to French
+ ...
Concerning your SecurePro program Dec 17, 2016

Concerning your SecurePro program, I can understand your motivation to offer to everyone an 'honest and secure environment'. But putting on your site sensitive personal information (phone number, citizenship, address - most of the time the address of freelancers is their home address!), it also means to run the risk of being a victim of scams. Since I registered on your site, I have been harassed for months by someone who had taken my information (which was minimal, just my e-mail address) on yo... See more
Concerning your SecurePro program, I can understand your motivation to offer to everyone an 'honest and secure environment'. But putting on your site sensitive personal information (phone number, citizenship, address - most of the time the address of freelancers is their home address!), it also means to run the risk of being a victim of scams. Since I registered on your site, I have been harassed for months by someone who had taken my information (which was minimal, just my e-mail address) on your site. This person managed to find my personal address, and I ended up making a complaint to the FBI. That translators exchange their personal information with the agencies for which they work; this is quite normal. But is it the responsibility of Proz to collect such information? I think it's up to the agencies to check who they hire. If I do not want to put my personal information on your site, it is not because I have things to hide. I just do not want to relive the harassment that I suffered in the past, and I do not want to be penalized (no longer be able to find contracts via your site) because I refuse to put all my personal information online.Collapse


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:33
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Everyone Dec 17, 2016

memond wrote:

........ If I do not want to put my personal information on your site, it is not because I have things to hide. I just do not want to relive the harassment that I suffered in the past, and I do not want to be penalized (no longer be able to find contracts via your site) because I refuse to put all my personal information online.


I think these are exactly the concerns we all share. Well put.


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 15:33
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
I will be in touch, memond Dec 17, 2016

memond wrote:

Concerning your SecurePro program, I can understand your motivation to offer to everyone an 'honest and secure environment'. But putting on your site sensitive personal information (phone number, citizenship, address - most of the time the address of freelancers is their home address!), it also means to run the risk of being a victim of scams. Since I registered on your site, I have been harassed for months by someone who had taken my information (which was minimal, just my e-mail address) on your site. This person managed to find my personal address, and I ended up making a complaint to the FBI. That translators exchange their personal information with the agencies for which they work; this is quite normal. But is it the responsibility of Proz to collect such information? I think it's up to the agencies to check who they hire. If I do not want to put my personal information on your site, it is not because I have things to hide. I just do not want to relive the harassment that I suffered in the past, and I do not want to be penalized (no longer be able to find contracts via your site) because I refuse to put all my personal information online.

Hi memond,

I am sorry to hear that this happened to you. I will contact you separately to make sure that you have been in touch with our support team so that we can also takes steps, if appropriate.

Here, I just want to clarify that so far, the only new personal information we are collecting in connection with the SecurePRO program is citizenship. That is the only new field. (And at this time we have no plans to add any other new fields.) Also, when it comes to the existing information, there are no new disclosures to site users. The program does involve optional verification of existing data fields, and other data fields that we will not store, with third-party verification services--but not disclosure of that information to others.

By the way, as you probably realize by now, but also for others who may be reading this: it is not necessary to disclose email address to use the site. It is your choice, but you may want to think twice about disclosing your email address in a CV or in the "About me" portion of your profile.


 
memond
memond  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:33
Member (2015)
English to French
+ ...
Concerning your SecurePro program Dec 17, 2016

Well, first, my email address was supposed to be seen only by me. The first email I received from the 'scam person' was coming from your site.

Also, my question here is how will you verify citizenship of people? Will you ask a print of their passport?


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 15:33
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Verification done by third parties Dec 17, 2016

memond wrote:

Well, first, my email address was supposed to be seen only by me. The first email I received from the 'scam person' was coming from your site.

You probably already know this, memond, but for others reading this: visitors to your profile can send you a message, but your email address is not disclosed to them unless you reply by email.

Also, my question here is how will you verify citizenship of people? Will you ask a print of their passport?

We won't be doing that verification, we will be working with a service that does. Your use of that service would be optional.

It is similar to the situation with membership payments. We don't collect credit card information. We send you to a third-party service (Paypal, etc.), which processes payment for us. Consequently it is impossible for your credit card information to be stolen from ProZ.com. (Because we don't have it.)


 
Premium✍️
Premium✍️  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:33
Member (2006)
English to French
+ ...
100% Profile Completeness Done! Dec 17, 2016

Dear Henry,

I have completed my SecureCardPro info. After passing a few background checks through the years, I was awarded and now hold a certificate of clearance in/for the educational field. I made mention of it in my SCP statement. But I forgot to mention that it expires in 2020. When I went back to the card and clicked on it, it swivels back and forth. I do not see an 'EDIT' button to add this information. Could you please add one.

1. Re: Background Checks
... See more
Dear Henry,

I have completed my SecureCardPro info. After passing a few background checks through the years, I was awarded and now hold a certificate of clearance in/for the educational field. I made mention of it in my SCP statement. But I forgot to mention that it expires in 2020. When I went back to the card and clicked on it, it swivels back and forth. I do not see an 'EDIT' button to add this information. Could you please add one.

1. Re: Background Checks and Job Clearance
Can we upload a copy of our background checks results/papers and/or certificates of clearance in the allotted SCPC section/tab? Alternatively, can an option/mention be added to the effect that such documents are available and can be submitted, if necessary?

2. Re: Citizenship
What about dual citizenship? So far, the SPC allows only one country and one field to be entered. Mentioning citizenship can be detrimental for job purposes. Let's say that a French native has been living in the US for 20+ years, has impeccable credentials in French, holds many university degrees and even a doctorate degree in French linguistics or French translation. A job poster requires (We are still in the hypothetical realm) that applicants have native French proficiency for that job. Don't you think that having "American" citizenship plastered on that French native applicant's SCPC will automatically and adversely affect his/her chance to get that job?
I think so. Unfortunately, some PMs and other hiring managers/officials will not instinctively think of an acquired citizenship (i.e. naturalization) possibility.

3. Re: Address, Phone Number, Personal Info etc.
My full home address is listed on my CV, sometimes on my email signature tag for specific recipients, and prominently displayed on my ProZ invoices and all my other clients invoices. Like other posters here, I am very apprehensive and reluctant to divulge such personal info to unknown third parties online because (a) I find it initially irrelevant if no job is assigned to us; (b) such very personal request is extremely invasive and intrusive; (c) due to the inherent and related high risks involved therein. Could a mention such as or the usual phrase CV available upon request or an alternative wording such as "CV with street/home address, phone number(s), fax number, available upon request.", be implemented?

4. Re: SCPC for Agencies, Outsourcers and "Colleagues" acting as Outsourcers
I would be personally delighted if a similar SecureCardProgram were implemented for job posters, translation companies, language agencies, LSPs and other outsourcers colleagues!! Since December 2013 a translator here has contacted me to do a 4,000 or 5,000+ translation for him (I don't remember anymore). As you can imagine, I submitted a stellar, expeditiously done professional work to him after 2 nights of hard work. He expressed his satisfaction with it and wrote that he enjoyed it while eating his Sunday breakfast I sent him my invoice repeatedly, emailed him multiple times, submitted support tickets, emailed site staff in an effort to obtain my hard-earned money. To no avail. I have entered a negative rating for him on the BB. When he has the nerve to appear and answer French KudoZ, as a last resort and desperate attempt to get my rightful dues, I have peer-commented to him: "Still awaiting payment from you/ You have not responded to my Proz emails, personal emails regarding your outstanding payment." In some cases, 1 or 2 of these peer comments have been hidden. I only wish that the same hiding hands touched him instead, shook him to ethical awareness and solved the underlying matter which was his delinquent/outstanding/overdue payment.
Wouldn't it be nice and sweet, Henry, if you could pin a warning on his SPC card stating that he has not paid this ProZ member (MultiPro with a profile to my link) EUR XXX.00 amount (I will provide the exact amount, title, field, dates and emails) since December 2013? But of course if you are willing to reach him and let him know that his account is temporarily suspended until he pays me the outstanding 2013 invoice, that would be the best gift I could receive from the site and I would immediately treat myself to a purchase of the CaféTran TMT/CAT for Christmas.

5. Re: Age
Henry, as a gentleman, I trust that you must know of the adage : "On ne demande jamais son âge à une femme ! (You never ask a lady her age!) Well, personally, I am still relatively far away from my retirement years, but I think revealing this DOB data can be prejudicial to our esteemed and most revered senior colleagues here. Some job posters and stealth visitors come prowling on the professional Translation Workplace with an obvious (financial) goal: They seem to have a field day targeting, hunting and preying on the young and inexperienced.

Cheers!

ProZ Profile Completeness 100% Updated

Edited to complete the sentence with : ...."not paid this ProZ member (MultiPro with a profile to my link) $XX.00 amount (I will provide you with the exact amount) since 2013?























[Edited at 2016-12-18 19:57 GMT]
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Emil Kucera
Emil Kucera
Canada
Local time: 14:33
Member (2007)
Czech to English
+ ...
Concerns of a latecomer to the discussion Dec 19, 2016

I may not need to be concerned about a lot that was already discussed, as I did join the Plus program and am a Certified Pro as well. However, here's my two cents worth of opinion:
For a start - "Data" Security is a misnomer - publishing the card does not make ANYTHING more secure - all the card provides is information about me, some of which is on the site already, other (e.g., cellphone) which I even may not wish to make public.

Second page of the sample card - again, dupli
... See more
I may not need to be concerned about a lot that was already discussed, as I did join the Plus program and am a Certified Pro as well. However, here's my two cents worth of opinion:
For a start - "Data" Security is a misnomer - publishing the card does not make ANYTHING more secure - all the card provides is information about me, some of which is on the site already, other (e.g., cellphone) which I even may not wish to make public.

Second page of the sample card - again, duplicates things that should be obvious from, for example, the endorsed Professional highlights.

Henry said, "This is a program to try to improve the confidentiality situation in the industry. The direction will be led by ProZ.com staff members together with those who choose to participate. I would say that you have nothing to worry about--if you want no part of it, this is an initiative that you can safely ignore."

Perhaps, but DO make sure that nothing says that someone did 'not join the party.'

Also, count me in as agreeing wholeheartedly with the following
suggestions:
1. by Michele Fauble on Dec 12
"This is the kind of detail we'll pick up in the sounding board discussions. How do you propose that to work, exactly?"

From the various items that you may wish to verify (and who knows what those may be in the future), you verify the ones we choose. If we do not want an item verified, or you are unable to verify it, leave that item off the badge. That way there is no "unverified", which does sound negative.

2. also (writeway, quoted by Gallagy Dec 13)
By what authority does Proz feel they are entitled to sell/offer security of any kind, to post our names, phone numbers, nationalities etc. For whom? I find this abusive and extremely invasive. Proz is going to verify citizenship?

3. The field for citizenship should definitely allow to list dual citizenships !
Although I would prefer the field dropped. Any client already can request on the site that the translator be a citizen of x or y. You still did not make it clear how the info on citizenship would be verified.
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Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 15:33
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, Emil Dec 20, 2016

Emil Kucera wrote:

I may not need to be concerned about a lot that was already discussed, as I did join the Plus program and am a Certified Pro as well. However, here's my two cents worth of opinion:

Thanks for joining the discussion, Emil. Your feedback and questions are appreciated.

2. also (writeway, quoted by Gallagy Dec 13)
By what authority does Proz feel they are entitled to sell/offer security of any kind, to post our names, phone numbers, nationalities etc. For whom?

ProZ.com is a facilitator. We provide "tools and opportunities" for freelancers and LSPs to do the things they do more effectively and efficiently. Freelancers and LSPs have needs and procedures related to confidentiality and security, and we are providing tools that may be useful to those who choose to use them.

For example, the new SecurePRO security procedures field provides a space for you to optionally indicate -- for potential clients and collaborators -- your philosophies and practices related to confidentiality and data security. You are not talking to ProZ.com in that field, after all, the ProZ.com staff does not need to know about your security philosophies and procedures. But it is a fact that some potential clients and collaborators do, and if this tool helps you to communicate that more effectively and efficiently, you may choose to use it.

3. The field for citizenship should definitely allow to list dual citizenships !
Although I would prefer the field dropped. Any client already can request on the site that the translator be a citizen of x or y. You still did not make it clear how the info on citizenship would be verified.

Entering multiple citizenships is, and has been, possible. I am not sure why someone said that it isn't.

I have explained previously in this thread that ProZ.com is not collecting, saving or displaying any new personal data in connection with this program (with the only exception being a new, optional citizenship(s) field), and I have also addressed the question of others being told/realizing that someone is not "at the party", so I will not repeat myself here.


 
Lincoln Hui
Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
Hong Kong
Local time: 03:33
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
One thing Dec 21, 2016

As a Plus member I find this feature highly objectionable, but I don't intend to argue that at this time.

The visitor view in my profile doesn't show the SecurePro link, so there's no way for me to tell how it would actually look. However, I strongly encourage that you disable verified phone number and mobile number as filters for searching purposes, and that if a member chooses not to publish their phone numbers, that the phone/mobile number field is simply not displayed at all, ra
... See more
As a Plus member I find this feature highly objectionable, but I don't intend to argue that at this time.

The visitor view in my profile doesn't show the SecurePro link, so there's no way for me to tell how it would actually look. However, I strongly encourage that you disable verified phone number and mobile number as filters for searching purposes, and that if a member chooses not to publish their phone numbers, that the phone/mobile number field is simply not displayed at all, rather than displaying as non-verified.

[Edited at 2016-12-21 04:22 GMT]
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Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 20:33
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Anyone can have one? Dec 21, 2016

Henry Dotterer wrote:
Same with the SecurePRO cards. Anyone can have one, there is no difference there.


What do you mean, Henry? Do you mean that there is a way that non-Plus members can have a SecurePro card and/or have it displayed in their ProZ.com profiles in a location that is similarly prominent to those who are Plus members? Will members (Plus or Standard) who have identity verification cards from other services (e.g. miicard) be given the option to display their verification cards on their profiles as well?


 
Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:33
English to German
+ ...
Definite no for me Dec 21, 2016

Emil Kucera wrote:

... Any client already can request on the site that the translator be a citizen of x or y. ....


Really? Request a specific citizenship? That's not okay. Do you mean residence in a specific country or region?


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 15:33
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Interested in your experience with Miicard, Samuel Dec 21, 2016

Samuel Murray wrote:

Henry Dotterer wrote:
Same with the SecurePRO cards. Anyone can have one, there is no difference there.


What do you mean, Henry? Do you mean that there is a way that non-Plus members can have a SecurePro card and/or have it displayed in their ProZ.com profiles in a location that is similarly prominent to those who are Plus members?

Yes, anyone can create a SecurePRO card. The business model is that either the profile owner or the viewer has to be a Plus subscriber (or business member) for the card to be viewable. So Plus subscribers benefit by (1) being able to reference others' SecurePRO cards when considering whether or not to work/collaborate with them, and (2) being able to make their own SecurePRO cards viewable to not just some, but all potential clients and collaborators.

And oh yeah, being a paid service, third-party verification of certain fields is also Plus-only.

Will members (Plus or Standard) who have identity verification cards from other services (e.g. miicard) be given the option to display their verification cards on their profiles as well?

We did come across miicard when doing research. Do you use that service? How did you hear about it? Do you know of other translators using it? A service like this looks attractive, but integration is non-trivial and it is only useful to the extent the service has been adopted by translators.


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 15:33
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, Lincoln Dec 21, 2016

Lincoln Hui wrote:

As a Plus member I find this feature highly objectionable, but I don't intend to argue that at this time.

Thanks for weighing in. I would be interested to know, in a line or two, what you as a Plus subscriber don't like about the program.

The visitor view in my profile doesn't show the SecurePro link, so there's no way for me to tell how it would actually look.

During this feedback period, the cards are visible only to their owners. You should be able to see the card in your owner view. The way you see it is very similar to the way others would see it. (Less edit links, etc.)

However, I strongly encourage that you disable verified phone number and mobile number as filters for searching purposes,

Those are not search parameters now.

and that if a member chooses not to publish their phone numbers, that the phone/mobile number field is simply not displayed at all, rather than displaying as non-verified.

Yes, display of this stuff has already been changed, to avoid negative impressions where there should be none, and we are likely to change further. Thanks.


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 20:33
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Miicard Dec 21, 2016

Henry Dotterer wrote:
We did come across Miicard when doing research. Do you use that service? How did you hear about it? Do you know of other translators using it?


No, I don't think I'll use it, because it requires me to provide more information than I'm comfortable with. Their theory is that anyone with a bank account at a physical bank can be trusted to be the person they're claiming to be, but in order for them to verify that, you need to tell them your banking login details (e.g. your PIN and your secret phrase).

What I found interesting about Miicard is their idea that you can connect your profiles on other sites to your verification card. In other words, when someone visits your Miicard card, they can also see which e.g. Facebook page is really yours, which LinkedIn profile is really yours, etc. Sometimes when I google the name of a translator, I may come across e.g. a LinkedIn profile that appears to be theirs, but there's no quick or easy way of telling for certain whether that LinkedIn profile is the profile of the translator that I'm googling for.

I've touched on that in this post as well. However, I now realise that the whole "identity verification" thing is not an end in itself but simply a stepping stone to the implementation of ProZ.com's new data confidentiality features. I'm not really interested in that at this time -- only in identity verification itself.

A service like this looks attractive, but integration is non-trivial...


I wasn't thinking of "integration" really. The Miicard "card" is essentially a URL, and if there is room on a profile page to enter such a URL, then that is all the integration needed for identity verification itself (though perhaps not for the data confidentiality features).


 
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