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Project History (plus feedback!) features updated. Members are invited to use it!
Thread poster: Henry Dotterer

Henry Dotterer
Local time: 01:58
SITE FOUNDER
Dec 8, 2005

The Project History (SM)* feature released last week has been updated based on member feedback. Our thanks go to Natalya, Dinny, Konstantin, Jabberwock, Heike, Walter, Mihai, Deborah and others for their valuable input.

Walter Landesman has already entered a series of projects, of which he has chosen four projects to make visible in his profile. Of the four projects, two have been corroborated by outsourcers, and in each of those cases, feedback was also entered. Have a look to see an example of how the option to make projects visible can help you to communicate your experience, expertise and client satisfaction.

Ines Burrell is showing 7 projects, 2 of which have feedback from ProZ.com platinum members.

Now, we invite other members to begin making use of this feature. We ask you to continue sending feedback (in this thread) so that we can continue improving this important new feature.

..............

For those who did not see the first announcement, here are the details of the new system:

* Your "project history" allows you to track past projects completed, along with data on language pairs, fields, volume, client, etc.

* One application of the page is personal organization. You can use the system to keep a personal history, to track payments, etc. Your project history page is visible only to you, and by default, information entered on projects will not be seen by others.

* List any project you've done, whether or not the work came from a client met via ProZ.com.

* It is possible to select projects from your project history, and make general details about them appear to others via a "Project History" tab in your profile page. This provides a way for you to highlight relevant experience in a way that may be useful to potential clients.

* Potentially sensitive details, such as the name of a client, are not visible to anyone but you, by default. However, the option to show client names exists--provided that this is agreed to by both you and your client.

* To instill trust in potential clients, you will have the option of asking your clients to corroborate your project records.

* You also have the option of inviting your client to provide general feedback (positive, negative, neutral) on your work on the project.

* When an outsourcer searches the directory, the number of projects you have completed in the pair and field, and the number corroborated, will be shown.

* NEW! If you have worked with ProZ.com colleagues on a project, you can request corroboration and feedback, just as you have from the outsourcers. (This corroboration is handled and displayed separately from that of clients.)

* Project histories are a platinum-only feature. Beta testing is also platinum-only. ("Jobs"-type partial platinum members also have access to this feature.)

We anticipate that this project history feature will provide a convenient means for translators to keep track of their work, and further, for top translators to differentiate themselves based on professional experience and client satisfaction.

Conversely, for outsourcers requiring translators specialized in certain areas, the project history profile tab will provide additional information that may be useful when identifying candidates for further qualification.

http://www.proz.com/ph

* The term "Project History" is a service mark of ProZ.com.

Copyright (c) 2005 ProZ.com. All rights reserved.


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Vladimir Dubisskiy  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:58
Member (2001)
English to Russian
+ ...
should be a really good thing - some feedback Dec 9, 2005

I am trying to apply it towards new projects as well.

So, if it is supposed to be implemented instead of that former system with stars (client satisfaction thing) - would it be possible to wipe those stars out from the profile or at least make them optionally visible?).
That feature was not working for several years and, say, I have only one star with client satisfaction expressed (actually my first project received through ProZ) - so viewers may assume that I satisfied my client only once which is not true


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 01:58
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Good suggestion, Vladimir! Dec 9, 2005

Vladimir Dubisskiy wrote:

I am trying to apply it towards new projects as well.

So, if it is supposed to be implemented instead of that former system with stars (client satisfaction thing) - would it be possible to wipe those stars out from the profile or at least make them optionally visible?).
That feature was not working for several years and, say, I have only one star with client satisfaction expressed (actually my first project received through ProZ) - so viewers may assume that I satisfied my client only once which is not true


This is a good suggestion. We'll look at putting a project history summary in its place. Thank you.


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Konstantin Kisin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:58
Member (2004)
Russian to English
+ ...
directory consequences Dec 9, 2005

I'm just thinking about the consequences of this for the directory. Given what I currently see it seems to me that the person with the highest number of project history entries will look like the most active/best translator, which means that adding the word "select" is useless, since it will be in everyone's best interest to add all their projects and it will not be select at all. Perhaps a mere Corroborated/Available/Not available would be a better way to encourage selective entries rather than daily updates?

Otherwise we could see things like: I have a regular client who sends me work every week. Every week I add a new project from that client to bump up my number of projects improving how my directory info looks. Someone else may have got 1 project for a year and done 500k words and thus only have 1 entry while I may have done, say , 100k words, but have 40 entries...I have done 1/5 of his work but I look 40 times more active...

My previous concerns from the initial thread remain as well.

[Edited at 2005-12-09 18:35]


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 01:58
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Valid concerns, Konstantin Dec 9, 2005

Konstantin Kisin wrote:

I'm just thinking about the consequences of this for the directory. Given what I currently see it seems to me that the person with the highest number of project history entries will look like the most active/best translator, which means that adding the word "select" is useless, since it will be in everyone's best interest to add all their projects and it will not be select at all. Perhaps a mere Corroborated/Available/Not available would be a better way to encourage selective entries rather than daily updates?

Otherwise we could see things like: I have a regular client who sends me work every week. Every week I add a new project from that client to bump up my number of projects improving how my directory info looks. Someone else may have got 1 project for a year and done 500k words and thus only have 1 entry while I may have done, say , 100k words, but have 40 entries...I have done 1/5 of his work but I look 40 times more active...

My previous concerns from the initial thread remain as well.


You have expressed valid concerns. We have some ideas and I am confident that together we will find solutions as people begin using this functionality. (We need more data before we can make determinations.)


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xxxPFB  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:58
English to French
+ ...
Unlisted Dec 9, 2005

Hello Henry

Thanks for a great feature - and for a great site too.

Just a small detail: I've entered some of my projects and have noted that all the outsourcers appear as "unlisted", which I understand to mean they're not BB-listed. I believe they are, actually.

Did I miss something somewhere, or is it a technical problem? I don't really want them to appear by name, but I thought it was possible to see them as "BB members" or words to that effect.
many thanks!


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Konstantin Kisin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:58
Member (2004)
Russian to English
+ ...
great! Dec 9, 2005

I am glad to hear you have some ideas on this and share my view of the situation! My problem is that I would like to start using this feature as soon as possible but I do not want to contact my clients for corroboration until I have decided whether or not I will ask (some of) them to allow me to name them (otherwise I may have trouble later + I don't want to have to contact them twice). This decision will be made when I see what the final system looks like and from speaking to other people that is the case with others as well. Obviously, this may pose certain problems for your data collection...

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Walter Landesman  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 03:58
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Feedback from outsourcers. Dec 9, 2005

Outsourcers.

Outsourcers of some of the projects I listed have not answered yet.
* Do they have some time limit to reply?
* Does ProZ.com resend the email asking for their comments after some time?
* Is there any chance to review the email address - or to edit it - just in case there has been any mistakes or changes in it? Or that we can give you a secondary email address?

Walter


[Edited at 2005-12-09 23:27]


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Walter Landesman  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 03:58
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
No, I don`t think so. Dec 9, 2005

Konstantin Kisin wrote:
I'm just thinking about the consequences of this for the directory. Given what I currently see it seems to me that the person with the highest number of project history entries will look like the most active/best translator, which means that adding the word "select" is useless, since it will be in everyone's best interest to add all their projects and it will not be select at all. Perhaps a mere Corroborated/Available/Not available would be a better way to encourage selective entries rather than daily updates?
Otherwise we could see things like: I have a regular client who sends me work every week. Every week I add a new project from that client to bump up my number of projects improving how my directory info looks. Someone else may have got 1 project for a year and done 500k words and thus only have 1 entry while I may have done, say , 100k words, but have 40 entries...I have done 1/5 of his work but I look 40 times more active...
My previous concerns from the initial thread remain as well.



Sorry to disagree with you, Konstantin. "The person with the highest number of project history entries" does not have to be "the most active or best translator". Besides, "active" does not mean "best" either.

I can be a bad translator and:
1. have many jobs done and entered all of them in that page;
2. have just a few jobs done, but entered all of them;
3. have many jobs done, but chose (for different reasons) to enter only a few.

Or else, I might be an excellent translator and:
1. have many jobs done and entered all of them in that page;
2. have just a few jobs done, but entered all of them there;
3. have many jobs done, but chose (for different reasons) to enter only a few.

A high number of jobs included does not mean quality nor being busy.

On the other hand, a very busy pro might not be attactive to agencies and outsourcers: they may think he/she is too busy to take good care of their assignment or that he/she might charge too much and be too expensive.

Furthermore, you don´t have to make ALL your projects public. You choose. You may select a few, different topics, fields, outsourcers, that you consider representative of your professional work. You keep the rest for yourself and use this feature just for your own records. The public stuff (the SELECT Projects) is for marketing purposes. The rest is for you to keep good records of your production, to have your own project history. That is why - following member`s request in the original forum http://www.proz.com/topic/39771 - the word SELECT was added. And I believe it was a good and wise thing.

It´s for you to manage it. It`s just a matter of balance.
This is how I understand this feature.

[Edited at 2005-12-09 23:03]


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Konstantin Kisin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:58
Member (2004)
Russian to English
+ ...
perception vs. reality Dec 10, 2005

Walter Landesman wrote:

Sorry to disagree with you, Konstantin. "The person with the highest number of project history entries" does not have to be "the most active or best translator". Besides, "active" does not mean "best" either.


Yes, I agree. What I meant was that the impression an outsourcer unfamiliar with all the ins and outs of Proz (which is the majority I'd imagine) may get (and a wrong one indeed, as my example showed) would be that the translator with the most projects has more work and is therefore better. In any case, if the number of projects is no indicator of quality why show it in the directory?

Furthermore, you don´t have to make ALL your projects public. You choose. You may select a few, different topics, fields, outsourcers, that you consider representative of your professional work.
[Edited at 2005-12-09 23:03]


Right! But as above my point is that by not making your projects public you're making yourself look less attractive to a potential client. Marketing is all about the clients' perception, which can often be far from reality. In my view, the current system encourages everyone to put as many projects as possible in their PH which is not a good thing. It's not enough to simply add a word to the name; actions must be taken to make the PH a representation of your recent experience, not a list of all your projects.


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Walter Landesman  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 03:58
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
In my view.... Dec 10, 2005

Konstantin Kisin wrote:

In any case, if the number of projects is no indicator of quality why show it in the directory?


we don`t show the number. People are supposed to read what fields you work in and what`s the feedback that clients write on your performance.



But as above my point is that by not making your projects public you're making yourself look less attractive to a potential client. Marketing is all about the clients' perception, which can often be far from reality. In my view, the current system encourages everyone to put as many projects as possible in their PH which is not a good thing. It's not enough to simply add a word to the name; actions must be taken to make the PH a representation of your recent experience, not a list of all your projects.


As you say, this is your view. I don`t have the same perception, though.
Have a nice weekend.
Walter

[Edited at 2005-12-10 00:28]


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Dinny  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 08:58
Italian to Danish
+ ...
Enter outsourcers through "search" Dec 10, 2005

Philippe Boucry wrote:

Just a small detail: I've entered some of my projects and have noted that all the outsourcers appear as "unlisted", which I understand to mean they're not BB-listed. I believe they are, actually.



Hi Philippe,
You should enter outsourcers through "search BB" - if you just write the name however accurate (like in the 3rd option) it will show as "unlisted". Maybe this is a bug?

Dinny


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Konstantin Kisin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:58
Member (2004)
Russian to English
+ ...
the number is shown Dec 10, 2005

Walter Landesman wrote:
we don`t show the number. People are supposed to read what fields you work in and what`s the feedback that clients write on your performance.


Walter, without meaning to argue, please have a look at the directory. Currently the number of PH entries for the language pair and field is shown and another number is shown in brackets, which I assume to be the number of corroborated projects in the pair and field. My point is that a potential client may not bother to look at your 4 projects when there is someone with 444 projects right above/below you.

Look here for an example of the numbers being shown:

http://www.proz.com/directory/?mode=filter&from=eng&to=esl&type=na&field=broad6&native=na&country=uy&cred=na&software=na&avail=na&expertise=working&location=&keyword=


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Elvira Stoianov  Identity Verified
Luxembourg
Local time: 07:58
German to Romanian
+ ...
my PH does not appear in Visitor's view Dec 10, 2005

I haven't had too much time to check out this new feature which I find great. I have entered the last project I have worked on and checked the box to make it public, but when I click on visitor's view, there is no project history. Does anyone have an idea what I might be doing wrong? Thanks.

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Walter Landesman  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 03:58
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Wrong number shown Dec 10, 2005

Konstantin Kisin wrote:

Walter Landesman wrote:
we don`t show the number. People are supposed to read what fields you work in and what`s the feedback that clients write on your performance.


Walter, without meaning to argue, please have a look at the directory. Currently the number of PH entries for the language pair and field is shown and another number is shown in brackets, which I assume to be the number of corroborated projects in the pair and field. My point is that a potential client may not bother to look at your 4 projects when there is someone with 444 projects right above/below you.
Look here for an example of the numbers being shown:

http://www.proz.com/directory/?mode=filter&from=eng&to=esl&type=na&field=broad6&native=na&country=uy&cred=na&software=na&avail=na&expertise=working&location=&keyword=


Well, you are right. A number is shown. That number is supposed to be number of total entries and number of corroborations. Translators are not listed according to that number, though. But, as you say, numbers are shown. I take it that`s for people to see and check. It`s optional, anyway. I don´t mind.

BUT THOSE NUMBERS ARE WRONG. I HAVE 4, IT SHOWS 1. I HAVE 2 COOROBORATED, IT SHOWS 1. The same happens with other colleagues. THANKS TO MAKE ME NOTICE. Henry, Colin?

Walter


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