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Off topic: Это было бы смешно, коли не было б так грустно.. (О переводе книги П.Клостерман. Большое шоу.)
Thread poster: Victor Sidelnikov

Victor Sidelnikov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 15:04
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English to Russian
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May 28, 2004

Конечно, это off topic, но просто не смог удержаться.
Рекомендую, прежде чем взяться за свои переводы, ознакомиться с этим материалом:
http://trworkshop.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3565

[Edited at 2004-05-28 05:46]

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2004-05-28 05:50]


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Alexander Onishko  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:04
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просто супер ! May 28, 2004

этот перевод приобрел огромную самостоятельную ценность в качестве юмористического произведения))

===
особенно мне понравилось место где говорится о том, что угол измеряется в ярдах (а я-то глупый думал в градусах -
---
"Я не мог поверить своим глазам, необходим лишь простой угол горизонтальной наводки, менее чем 220 ярдов. Я быстро нажал на кнопку пуска. О-го-го! Весь его фюзеляж осветился вспышками. Моя первая очередь попала в цель, без промаха. "


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danya
Local time: 15:04
English to Russian
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я плакалЪ May 28, 2004

нет слов, одна неподцензурная лексика.
вот так и понимаешь свою собственную ценность как культуртрегера))


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Nikolai Muraviev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 15:04
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Давненько я так не смеялся... May 28, 2004

Увы! no words...

(из тени развесистой клюквы)
НМ


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Vladimir Pochinov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 14:04
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English to Russian
Уносимый скоростью, я все еще продолжаю смеяться ... May 28, 2004

Придется дросселировать назад, применив техник Иммельмана, а то мой сдавленный хвост-триммер не выдержит ...))

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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:04
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Shows how right I am never to translate English>Russian May 29, 2004

I have read Pierre Clostermann's book in English (I may still have it stowed away in the loft somewhere). When reading the translation excerpts, I could see very little wrong with them. Even the errors pointed out specifically in this topic were difficult for me to understand. E.g., the fact that he refers to the aiming angle and then says it is 220 yards, doesn't seem strange to me, he has apparently switched to referring to the range without saying so, and I don't need to have this explained. But obviously this is not acceptable in Russian.

I suppose that I can see all along what the translator was trying to express, having the same English way of thinking as she has, and just accept it without realising how ridiculous this seems in Russian.

It would be interesting to compare a translation by a Russian of a book in Russian into English - "Два капитана", for example, to see if I feel the same about that as you do about this translation.


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Arsen
Local time: 18:04
English to Russian
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Machine translation? May 30, 2004

Jack Doughty wrote:
I suppose that I can see all along what the translator was trying to express, having the same English way of thinking as she has, and just accept it without realising how ridiculous this seems in Russian.


I don't think she has the English way of thinking. She does not *understand* what she is translating and so chooses to stay as close to the source as possible, which helps you to "see" the source text through the gibberish she writes.

Here's a similar example I saw on forum.lingvo.ru:

Source: "The control line tubing should have a nominal 6.35mm OD and should be of continuous line, welded and re-drawn on the OD and ID."

Translation by ProMT: "Шланг трубки линии контроля должен иметь номинал 6.35mm, отравляется большой дозой наркотика и должен быть из непрерывной линии, спаянной и измененной на передозировке и удостоверении личности."


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:04
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Yes, her closeness to the source text probably explains it. May 30, 2004

But even I can see something terribly wrong with your ПроМТ example!

I've just re-read it more thoroughly, and picked up a lot more errors this time. E.g. "двухступенчатыми усиленными зарядами" for "two-stage superchargers".

Pierre's description of a Focke-Wulf 190 must have ended by saying all these features were "in place", which is fine, but I can see that "все в одном месте" is ridiculous.

In one or two cases though, I suspect bad proofreading rather than bad translation. "Я поднял шасси и закрыл их" must surely have been written by the translator as "Я поднял шасси и закрылки".

"...дремали под опущенными крыльями спитфайров" - this might even be possible if it had been "сифайров". The Royal Navy had a version of the Spitfire called the Seafire, with wings which folded upwards to enable it to be taken up and down the lifts on aircraft carriers.

But I doubt if I would do much better with e.g. "Повесть о настояшем человеке". In any case, I certainly don't intend to try!


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Arsen
Local time: 18:04
English to Russian
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шасси May 31, 2004

I think "поднял шасси и закрыл их" may be the translation of "raised the landing gear and locked it".

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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
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Which should be "законтрил", shouldn't it? May 31, 2004

Reminds me of my second RAF Russian course in 1955. The students. like me, had all done a previous Russian course and been working on Russian air-ground radio traffic for years. One of our instructors was the supposed military expert. He had been a cavalry officer in Russia before the Revolution, so of course he knew it all. He had his own expression for "undercarriage down and locked" (can't remember now what it was) and flatly refused to accept the terms we knew from experience: "шасси выпустил и законтрил" or "шасси выпущено и законтрено".

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Sergei Tumanov  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:04
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I have certain doubts May 31, 2004

that the person used right word in russian. To me "законтрил" means put a stopper for a nut to prevent its loosening. And this is one time action which stops (or should fix) a nut forever. I think that "шасси ставят на замок" and your instructor being a good cavalery man simply used the wrong word.

In the army it is very difficult to resist using some words wrong when your superiors do this. After some time this becomes the only one right alternative.

Like: a private akse his sergeant whether crocodiles fly. The sergeant says that it is impossible. However after the private mentions that their colonel states that crocodiles are flying animals, sergeant has nothing to do but to confirm that they fly actually but not very high.

Your instructor picked up somewhere this word "законтрил" purhaps from his commanding officer and could not get rid of it.


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
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I think you misunderstood me May 31, 2004

It was we, the students, who knew perfectly well, from having heard Russian pilots coming in to land hundreds of times saying "шасси выпустил и законтрил" or "шасси выпущено и законтрено" that that was the correct Soviet Air Force term for "undercarriage down and locked". I have never come across "законтрить" in any other context myself. The instructor had never come across it at all and refused to believe that it existed. But it did. I am talking about the jargon of fifty years ago here, I have no idea if the present Russian Air Force uses the same term. Maybe Vova could tell us.

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Arsen
Local time: 18:04
English to Russian
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законтрить Jun 1, 2004

Интернет подтверждает такое значение. "Законтрить" - зафиксировать кран управления шасси специальной защелкой.

"ПЕРЕД РУЛЕНИЕМ

Проверить, открыт ли кран сети.

Убедиться, что кран уборки шасси находится в положении "Выпущено" и законтрен."

("ПОСОБИЕ ЛЕТЧИКУ ПО ЭКСПЛУАТАЦИИ И ТЕХНИКЕ ПИЛОТИРОВАНИЯ САМОЛЕТА ЯК-18 С ДВИГАТЕЛЕМ М-11ФР", ВОЕННОЕ ИЗДАТЕЛЬСТВО МИНИСТЕРСТВА ОБОРОНЫ СОЮЗА ССР МОСКВА--1953)

Картинка: http://yak18.boom.ru/book009.htm

---

Неопытный диспетчер спрашивает заходящий на посадку Ан-2:
— У вас шасси выпущено?

На что пилот отвечает:
— Шасси выпущено и законтрено в 1947 году.


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Sergei Tumanov  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:04
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тогда я должен признаться Jun 1, 2004

что моряки летают плохо (или неграмотно)

один ноль в вашу пользу!

ну почему водяные не летают? ответ - плохо знают чуждую терминологию!


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Sergey:)  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:04
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Каждый прав, но по-своему: Jun 1, 2004

- шасси обязательно фиксируется в убранном и выпущенном положении механическими замками (up-lock и down-lock соответственно). Эти замки являются частью механизма уборки-выпуска шасси и находятся в нише шасси
- летчик управляет уборкой-выпуском шасси при помощи крана, который, во избежание случайного перемещения, должен быть законтрен


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Это было бы смешно, коли не было б так грустно.. (О переводе книги П.Клостерман. Большое шоу.)

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