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Translator fradulently posing as someone else
Thread poster: Stéphanie Denton

Stéphanie Denton  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:19
French to English
+ ...
Nov 8, 2011

Hi all

Writing for a tiny bit of advice.

Not sure if I've posted in the correct forum so moderators, please feel free to move this somewhere else.

I had a translator undertake some work for me recently. It was a large project, and when it came to the deadline, she only handed in 30% of the document. She finally delivered the full project over 48 hours late. It contained over 12800 errors. I had to have the translation re-done, and obviously refused to pay said translator. I also stipulated that I never wished to work with this person again. It later transpired that the translator in question had outsourced the work to someone else, without my permission, after having signed a NDA.

One of the translators who responded to my job posting completed a section of the re-translation, and invoiced me. The invoice came from the initial translator's (whom I had clearly informed that I wished to have no future dealings with) PayPal address.

After further digging, I looked back at the e-mails exchanged between myself and said "translatorS", their English spelling and way of writing is exactly the same. When sending e-mails, they both write in the subject line, instead of in the e-mail body. Admittedly, I should have noticed this, but in the rush and panic of a deadline, I overlooked it.

I raised my concerns with the moderators of another translation site and they have agreed with me that it is suspicious and flagged the relevant profiles on the other site.

I have done some further digging and the IP addresses are exactly the same. Also, "their" mobile numbers are virtually the same. Just one number different, and ths being the very last digit.

I do not really know what to do about this. Obviously, I cannot name and shame on here (although I wish I could).

Any advice?

Thanks in advance.

Stéph

*Edited for a typo!*




[Edited at 2011-11-08 18:30 GMT]


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:19
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
And the purpose of the posting is...? Nov 8, 2011

Did you finally get the translation completed to a satisfactory level?
Did you pay for it?
Did you incur extra costs due to this mess that you wish to recover?
Do you need advice on any of these above?

Or
Do you just want to vent? (Which is OK, too.)
As to what to do about this, if this person is (or these two people, for example a married couple) a ProZ user, and you suspect fraudulent activities, you should submit a support request with all the relevant info, just as you did with the other site.

Katalin


 

Stéphanie Denton  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:19
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Bit of both Nov 8, 2011

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

Did you finally get the translation completed to a satisfactory level?
Did you pay for it?
Did you incur extra costs due to this mess that you wish to recover?
Do you need advice on any of these above?

Or
Do you just want to vent? (Which is OK, too.)
As to what to do about this, if this person is (or these two people, for example a married couple) a ProZ user, and you suspect fraudulent activities, you should submit a support request with all the relevant info, just as you did with the other site.

Katalin



The translation was finally completed to a satisfactory level, by numerous translators due to the urgency.

I haven't yet paid for the re-translation.

I did incur extra costs and yes, if possible I would like to recover these costs. These include higher urgency rates for new translators to re-translate the file, the use of an external proofreader to analyse the initial translation as a third party reviewer and also having to pay my in-house adminer overtime to rectify all of the formatting erros that were due to clear, concise instructions that were not adhered to. It amounts to around £2500.

I did want to vent, as I am annoyed and a little upset!

I do intend on informing ProZ about this, and have all the evidence ready to go. It quite clearly is one person who applied under someone else's name.


 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:19
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
What.... Nov 8, 2011

What did your contract with each of the translators say about dispute resolution?

 

Stéphanie Denton  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:19
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Contracts with translators Nov 8, 2011

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

What did your contract with each of the translators say about dispute resolution?


First and foremost, "both" translators received exactly the same terms and conditions, service provider agreement, code of conduct and NDA.

The "first" translator accepted that she was in the wrong after trying to wiggle out of it, and admitted that the work did not merit payment according to the T&Cs that she had signed.

I'm not disputing that the second translation merited payment, as it was of good quality, however, I had clearly stipulated that I wished to have no further dealings with the first translator, who I believe (and the evidence would seem to agree with me) is fradulently imitating someone who does not exist. The "second" translator stated that she did not have a PayPal address (ok, may be true, but what translator requests payment via PayPal and doesn't have their own PayPal address...?). My question is this: if the first translator is fradulently imitating someone else (who may, or may not exist), isn't that breech of contract?

On another note, both translators have had their profiles removed from the other translation site.


 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:19
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
What was the procedure? Nov 8, 2011

Stéphanie Denton wrote:
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
What did your contract with each of the translators say about dispute resolution?

First and foremost, "both" translators received exactly the same terms and conditions, service provider agreement, code of conduct and NDA.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think you answered my question. What I meant to ask is what procedure you stipulate in case of a dispute. Things like whose professional judgment is used as to establish the quality of the translation, or whether it is just you as the outsourcer. How is the calculation made about how much the translator gets in the end in case of a dispute and a need to correct the translation?


 

Stéphanie Denton  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:19
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Apologies Nov 8, 2011

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

Stéphanie Denton wrote:
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
What did your contract with each of the translators say about dispute resolution?

First and foremost, "both" translators received exactly the same terms and conditions, service provider agreement, code of conduct and NDA.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think you answered my question. What I meant to ask is what procedure you stipulate in case of a dispute. Things like whose professional judgment is used as to establish the quality of the translation, or whether it is just you as the outsourcer. How is the calculation made about how much the translator gets in the end in case of a dispute and a need to correct the translation?


Apologies Tomás, I got carried away with myself.

I think I mentioned it earlier, but a third party reviewer is brought in to analyse the text, Hence my knowing that in a 20,000 word text, there were 12,800 errors, not including the formatting.

It is based on a matrix as to the severity of the mistakes, how many, whether it needs to be re-done, etc.

However, could you explain how this question is relevant to the posting as I'm now a little confused!icon_wink.gif (blonde moment maybe!)


 

xxxValerie35
Local time: 21:19
German to English
Clear to me from other postings ... Nov 8, 2011

Stéphanie Denton wrote:
Any advice?


You have lots of disasters in a short period of time, and I think it is due to a faulty selection of translators and customers. I think other people have mentioned that in the numerous other threads.

You have to judge people by their actions, not what they say. And you can only do that after they have built up a history of actions - meaning that you initially start with very small jobs and build up.

But I think this advice is going to be dismissed.


 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:19
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
OK! Nov 8, 2011

Stéphanie Denton wrote:
It is based on a matrix as to the severity of the mistakes, how many, whether it needs to be re-done, etc.

OK! Makes sense to me. Thank you for your patience.
However, could you explain how this question is relevant to the posting...

I asked because, the way I see it, it makes sense to dissect the matter into three separate parts:

- First matter: An outsourcer who apparently supplied genuine personal details and signature made a mess of the job, so does not get paid a dime, according to the contract. One thing settled.

- Second matter: A second outsourcer who apparently supplied genuine personal details and signature delivered a reasonable quality, so should get paid according to the contract. Another thing settled as soon as payment is done in the terms agreed.

- Third matter: Are the first and second outsourcers the same person and therefore had supplied fake details and signature, as well as one or eventually two fake proz.com profiles? The only way to know is to issue a support ticket to Proz.com and let them research. According to the site's rules, fake profiles are not acceptable. Once they have taken appropriate disciplinary action --in case there are indeed reasons beyond doubt that a fake profile existed--, another thing settled I reckon.

Just the way I see it!


 

Stéphanie Denton  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:19
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Clear Nov 8, 2011

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

Stéphanie Denton wrote:
It is based on a matrix as to the severity of the mistakes, how many, whether it needs to be re-done, etc.

OK! Makes sense to me. Thank you for your patience.
However, could you explain how this question is relevant to the posting...

I asked because, the way I see it, it makes sense to dissect the matter into three separate parts:

- First matter: An outsourcer who apparently supplied genuine personal details and signature made a mess of the job, so does not get paid a dime, according to the contract. One thing settled.

- Second matter: A second outsourcer who apparently supplied genuine personal details and signature delivered a reasonable quality, so should get paid according to the contract. Another thing settled as soon as payment is done in the terms agreed.

- Third matter: Are the first and second outsourcers the same person and therefore had supplied fake details and signature, as well as one or eventually two fake proz.com profiles? The only way to know is to issue a support ticket to Proz.com and let them research. According to the site's rules, fake profiles are not acceptable. Once they have taken appropriate disciplinary action --in case there are indeed reasons beyond doubt that a fake profile existed--, another thing settled I reckon.

Just the way I see it!


No, thank you for your patience, I jumped ahead of myself, as per usualicon_wink.gif

The fact that the "second" translator's work merits payment was never in dispute, as it was of good quality.

The issue now lies in whether the first translator and the second translator are indeed the same person. Words such as "imposter" and "fraud" are jumping to mind.

Support ticket submittedicon_smile.gif


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:19
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
What does the contract say? (As Tomas asked) Nov 8, 2011

Stéphanie Denton wrote:

I did incur extra costs and yes, if possible I would like to recover these costs. These include higher urgency rates for new translators to re-translate the file, the use of an external proofreader to analyse the initial translation as a third party reviewer and also having to pay my in-house adminer overtime to rectify all of the formatting erros that were due to clear, concise instructions that were not adhered to. It amounts to around £2500.


I think Tomas's question about the specific terms of the contract regarding dispute resolution is a very relevant one, if you want the faulty translator to pay you for any of the extra expenses you incurred.
So, again, what does the contract say?
Katalin


 

Stéphanie Denton  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:19
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Contract Nov 8, 2011

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

Stéphanie Denton wrote:

I did incur extra costs and yes, if possible I would like to recover these costs. These include higher urgency rates for new translators to re-translate the file, the use of an external proofreader to analyse the initial translation as a third party reviewer and also having to pay my in-house adminer overtime to rectify all of the formatting erros that were due to clear, concise instructions that were not adhered to. It amounts to around £2500.


I think Tomas's question about the specific terms of the contract regarding dispute resolution is a very relevant one, if you want the faulty translator to pay you for any of the extra expenses you incurred.
So, again, what does the contract say?
Katalin


That any costs exceeding the translator's PO/invoice amount incurred due to their fault shall be covered by the translator. I've never once actually had to do this before and maybe I'm being too nice, but I just want her to get duly reprimanded for imitating someone else as she will point blank refuse to pay, this I know.


 

Kuochoe Nikoi  Identity Verified
Ghana
Local time: 19:19
Member (2011)
Japanese to English
Pay her Nov 8, 2011

If you have incontrovertible evidence that Translator1 and Translator2 are the same (I'm talking evidence that would hold up in a court of law), I'd go ahead and pay Translator2... but I'd also tally the additional costs I occurred because of her (£2500, was it?) and subtract them from the total before payment. If she ends up owing you in the end, that's a good way to make sure you never hear from her again.

[Edited at 2011-11-08 20:00 GMT]


 

Rolf Kern  Identity Verified
Switzerland
Local time: 21:19
English to German
+ ...
How? Nov 8, 2011

How did you come to the "first" translator. Lowest price?

 

Stéphanie Denton  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:19
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Prices Nov 8, 2011

Rolf Kern wrote:

How did you come to the "first" translator. Lowest price?


No! I believe in fairly paying my translators, and paying them as I would be expected to be paid for the same sort of work. She is someone who I have previously done work for myself. And who has also got a good track record. The issue was that she outsourced the work (without my permission after signing an NDA) to an incompetent translator.


 
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