| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Agency continues to ask for "sample translations" for "big upcoming project" which never happens Thread poster: Pamela Avalos
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jotranslator 
Israel
Local time: 22:43
Russian to English
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| It is disrespectful... and sadly common | May 23, 2014 |
Katarzyna Slowikova wrote:
So they expect you to spend hours doing free work for them but are not willing to spend two minutes in order to reply to your email... I'd forget about them, legit or not, that's just disrespectful... though suspicious too.
Yes, I agree it is disrespectful. The business model among the lower-paying agencies seems to be - send out tests to as many people as possible, use the best ones to win the job, then pick the cheapest translator, presumably within some sort of quality boundary.
I don't think it's suspicious in the sense of smelling like a scam, but it's suspicious in the sense that this is probably not a good agency to work with. They are probably looking for someone who will do what they ask without questioning - i.e. someone who really needs the work. That person will more likely accept a lower rate.
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 21:43
Member (2009)
English to German
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| Terms & Conditions | May 24, 2014 |
Anna Sarah Krämer Fazendeiro wrote:
The thing is, agencies run a business and they will always try to get things for less or for free - and some are more cheeky than others. We just have to state our rules. If the agency accepts, it's good. If not, it's not a problem, as I wouldn't want to work for them, anyway.
Yes, the agencies are running a business. Yet sometimes some (not all!) of them seem to forget that each and every freelance translator is also running a business with taxes and bills to pay.
As an independent entity we are not working for but with the agency as equal partners. IMHO this is what sincere business relationships are all about.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 21:43
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| The problem with bidding on a large project | May 24, 2014 |
Pamela Avalos wrote:
However, I have been contacted by the same South-Korean company four different times since 2013, always saying they are bidding on a large project, and that they need a sample translation.
The problem with smaller agencies bidding on projects with larger companies is that these larger companies don't just take the word of the smaller agencies that they have vetted the translators or that they have worked with these translator for many years, etc. These larger companies have their own procurement procedures that they believe that they must follow, and a test translation may be part of it. And the larger companies don't have access to the test translations done for previous large companies, but even if they did, they would be unlikely to just accept it.
So, unfortunately, if you're a translator who works with smaller agencies on bids for projects for larger companies, you're going to be asked to repeat certain steps over and over and over again.
| | | | Pamela Avalos
Chile
Local time: 15:43
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER
That may be so, but the project never happens and after the test translation is handed in all communication stops. I tried to follow up on a couple of these "projects" and my emails went unanswered. As I mentioned earlier, I am not a naturally suspicious person, but after the fourth time this happened I did begin to worry.
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Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 20:43
Member (2007)
English
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| My advice: ignore them | May 24, 2014 |
Pamela Avalos wrote:
the project never happens and after the test translation is handed in all communication stops. I tried to follow up on a couple of these "projects" and my emails went unanswered. As I mentioned earlier, I am not a naturally suspicious person, but after the fourth time this happened I did begin to worry.
They're either totally scamming you by selling your work (possible but not that likely if they're an established agency that's been around for a while now), or they're winning contracts on the basis of your good (free) work, then giving the real (paid) work to cheaper suppliers. Whichever it is, do you really want to have anything to do with them?
Clearly, they aren't going to stop hassling you - you're much too useful to them. But you've been very polite and professional for long enough. They can't force you to play ball any longer. Why don't you just click "X" in future?
| | | | | This is how I handle requests for "tests" | May 24, 2014 |
This is what I do when I get a request for a test translation:
Step 1. I tell them my rates and get them to agree to those rates in case I "pass" their tests.
(For many inquiries, the process ends right here.)
Step 2. Get confirmation that the test is for an actual job, and the test is from the text of that job.
(If it turns out that this is just a general test for "getting into their database", I suggest they take a look at my prepared samples instead.)... See more This is what I do when I get a request for a test translation:
Step 1. I tell them my rates and get them to agree to those rates in case I "pass" their tests.
(For many inquiries, the process ends right here.)
Step 2. Get confirmation that the test is for an actual job, and the test is from the text of that job.
(If it turns out that this is just a general test for "getting into their database", I suggest they take a look at my prepared samples instead.)
Step 3. If after Step 1 and Step 2 they still want the test translation, I tell them that I don't do free tests, they will have to pay my normal rates for the test. However, I will issue a discount coupon in the same value, valid for a year, that they can use for the real job that the test was for. (Or, if it is a general test, they can use it for any other job that is bigger than this "test" piece.)
Katalin ▲ Collapse
| | | | jotranslator
Israel
Local time: 22:43
Russian to English
+ ...
| I really like this approach! | May 25, 2014 |
Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
This is what I do when I get a request for a test translation:
Step 1. I tell them my rates and get them to agree to those rates in case I "pass" their tests.
(For many inquiries, the process ends right here.)
Step 2. Get confirmation that the test is for an actual job, and the test is from the text of that job.
(If it turns out that this is just a general test for "getting into their database", I suggest they take a look at my prepared samples instead.)
Step 3. If after Step 1 and Step 2 they still want the test translation, I tell them that I don't do free tests, they will have to pay my normal rates for the test. However, I will issue a discount coupon in the same value, valid for a year, that they can use for the real job that the test was for. (Or, if it is a general test, they can use it for any other job that is bigger than this "test" piece.)
Katalin
I really like this approach. I think that it is not only very professional, it sorts out the wheat from the low-paying chaff.
I would like to adopt this approach - like Katalin, I think that it would get result in most enquiries ending very soon. My only reservation is with small agencies who get several translators to complete a test for a book translation which they then pass to the book author to evaluate. There is no way that the agency would pay those being tested for their work.
Apart from this is not clear to me why so many larger agencies ask for test translations so that translators can get onto a database and then work never materializes. What is the point in them spending their time administering such tests? Because it gives the impression that the agencies are controlling the business such that they can get translators to jump through pointless hoops?
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joannapa wrote:
There is no way that the agency would pay those being tested for their work.
Why not?
[Edited at 2014-05-25 14:45 GMT]
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Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 20:43
Member (2007)
English
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| One - maybe; four - never! | May 25, 2014 |
Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
Step 1. I tell them my rates and get them to agree to those rates in case I "pass" their tests.
(For many inquiries, the process ends right here.)
IMHO, every single one of us should be doing that, without exception. There can be no reason whatsoever for doing a test if they are never going to pay your rates. You'd just be wasting your time.
Step 2. Get confirmation that the test is for an actual job, and the test is from the text of that job.
I think that inexperienced translators and those actively needing to enlarge their client base may prefer to be a little more ready to do tests just to be put on the databases of those clients they want to work with.
Step 3. If after Step 1 and Step 2 they still want the test translation, I tell them that I don't do free tests.
Again, it depends how much you need new clients. But it also depends on how you see the ROI (return on investment). In my own case, I'm prepared to do a short test (250 words maximum), and I'm prepared to do it for free - but only if the asker passes Step 1 and shows a definite need for my services in the near future. I'm sure I wouldn't be so generous if I was a technical translator, but a marketing translator has to be able to show a prospective client how they would handle a text where there are no right and wrong translations. Marketing is all about style and samples may not be enough.
But we're getting a bit off topic here as the OP reported having to do the fourth free test for the same prospective client. Even if they initially passed Step 1, it doesn't look as though they are willing to put their money where their mouth is.
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 15:43
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| My Principle | May 26, 2014 |
I would tell them:
1. If you want to test my quality, I can do one with less than 300 words. The deadline must be flexible. It could take 15 days for me to finish the test.
2. If you are doing a test to be included in your RFP, you should not solicit free translations. Instead, pay a higher rate to someone than you usually pay. it will increase your chance of winning the bid.
In most cases the clients accepted my opinions. And if they don't, I would say th... See more I would tell them:
1. If you want to test my quality, I can do one with less than 300 words. The deadline must be flexible. It could take 15 days for me to finish the test.
2. If you are doing a test to be included in your RFP, you should not solicit free translations. Instead, pay a higher rate to someone than you usually pay. it will increase your chance of winning the bid.
In most cases the clients accepted my opinions. And if they don't, I would say they are either not serious about their bidding, or even if they are serious, they have problem in their thinking or Math: They want to save $1000 for the risk of losing, say, a $100000 bid. It is that simple. ▲ Collapse
| | | | jotranslator
Israel
Local time: 22:43
Russian to English
+ ...
| Because they would see no point | May 26, 2014 |
Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei wrote: joannapa wrote:
There is no way that the agency would pay those being tested for their work. Why not? [Edited at 2014-05-25 14:45 GMT]
I imagine that in this business model, agencies ask as many translators as possible to do the tests, to give them the biggest possible pool from which to select.
Let's say 10 translators do the 400 word test. That's a total of 4,000 words translated. If they paid all of them, even at the lowest rate of $0.05 per word, that's $200 to pay out upfront from their own pockets, most to translators they will not work with.
And they don't need to in this business model because they can simply say, don't do the test, don't get the job. Period.
Also under this low rate business model the agency will be quoting the client a low rate as well, to win the job. So everyone is working on low rates, the profit margin cannot really support paying for tests.
Eventually everyone loses because this model does not support quality.
| | | | Pamela Avalos
Chile
Local time: 15:43
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | That is exactly right | May 26, 2014 |
Sheila Wilson wrote: Pamela Avalos wrote:
the project never happens and after the test translation is handed in all communication stops. I tried to follow up on a couple of these "projects" and my emails went unanswered. As I mentioned earlier, I am not a naturally suspicious person, but after the fourth time this happened I did begin to worry. They're either totally scamming you by selling your work (possible but not that likely if they're an established agency that's been around for a while now), or they're winning contracts on the basis of your good (free) work, then giving the real (paid) work to cheaper suppliers. Whichever it is, do you really want to have anything to do with them? Clearly, they aren't going to stop hassling you - you're much too useful to them. But you've been very polite and professional for long enough. They can't force you to play ball any longer. Why don't you just click "X" in future?
Yes Sheila, that is exactly what I'm going to do. They were also asking me to accept a rate of 0.04 USD per word, so it absolutely sounds like this is just the type of agency that you're describing. Goodbye to them!
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Pamela Avalos
Chile
Local time: 15:43
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER | This is great | May 26, 2014 |
Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
This is what I do when I get a request for a test translation:
Step 1. I tell them my rates and get them to agree to those rates in case I "pass" their tests.
(For many inquiries, the process ends right here.)
Step 2. Get confirmation that the test is for an actual job, and the test is from the text of that job.
(If it turns out that this is just a general test for "getting into their database", I suggest they take a look at my prepared samples instead.)
Step 3. If after Step 1 and Step 2 they still want the test translation, I tell them that I don't do free tests, they will have to pay my normal rates for the test. However, I will issue a discount coupon in the same value, valid for a year, that they can use for the real job that the test was for. (Or, if it is a general test, they can use it for any other job that is bigger than this "test" piece.)
Katalin
You're spot-on with this approach, and I will begin using it myself! Thanks for the tip
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