Is this a scam?
Thread poster: Elías Sauza

Elías Sauza  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 20:57
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Nov 19, 2018

I received a translation proposal and a request for a quotation. My quotation was accepted:

"I will be happy if we can make this work for $1500 and you will be getting an advance of $1500 so that the work will be done on time so kindly get back to me with the details below so that payment can be facilitated asap and you can finish in a timely manner.

Account name
Account number
Routine number
Bank name
Bank address"

This seems to me
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I received a translation proposal and a request for a quotation. My quotation was accepted:

"I will be happy if we can make this work for $1500 and you will be getting an advance of $1500 so that the work will be done on time so kindly get back to me with the details below so that payment can be facilitated asap and you can finish in a timely manner.

Account name
Account number
Routine number
Bank name
Bank address"

This seems to me fishy. There were 2 PDFs that I googled and found available on the Web. I first replied asking for a specific deadline, which originally was 2 weeks. No reply till now.
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neilmac
 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
Danish to English
+ ...
Probably Nov 19, 2018

It sounds like a scam so probably is.

Yolanda Broad
Adikary Rodson
Vadim Kadyrov
neilmac
 

Tony M
France
Local time: 03:57
Member
French to English
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
Undoubtedly a scam Nov 19, 2018

It has all the hallmarks — dodgy text, asking for bank details, too readily accepting your quote, no deadline stated, and then offering to pay in advance.

Either it is a phishing scam for your bank details — or else it is going to turn into an over-payment scam, when for soem reason they can't send the payment by wire and will have to send a bank cheque — which will be made out for too much, they will ask you to return the overpayment, and only later will you find out that the
... See more
It has all the hallmarks — dodgy text, asking for bank details, too readily accepting your quote, no deadline stated, and then offering to pay in advance.

Either it is a phishing scam for your bank details — or else it is going to turn into an over-payment scam, when for soem reason they can't send the payment by wire and will have to send a bank cheque — which will be made out for too much, they will ask you to return the overpayment, and only later will you find out that their supposedly secure 'bank cheque' was of course a fake.

Bin and move on...

And if you have suspicions in the future, avoid entering into any kind of dialogue with them, as that merely serves to validate your e-mail address, which in turn opens you up to a flood of future scammers.
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Adikary Rodson
Josephine Cassar
Ayoub Hassan
Sheila Wilson
neilmac
MiaLindahl
 

Katarzyna Slowikova  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:57
English to Czech
+ ...
No title of my reply Nov 19, 2018

There's no way to answer your question having only the 2nd message you received.
While it's certainly rare to be offered payment in advance, it's not necessarily a sign of scam, if there weren't any additional red flags.
Most scam attempts follow the same worn out, boring pattern, so reading a thread or two in this forum may give you enough tips to answer your question yourself.
Otherwise you'll have to provide more details about the request (not personal).

[Edited at 20
... See more
There's no way to answer your question having only the 2nd message you received.
While it's certainly rare to be offered payment in advance, it's not necessarily a sign of scam, if there weren't any additional red flags.
Most scam attempts follow the same worn out, boring pattern, so reading a thread or two in this forum may give you enough tips to answer your question yourself.
Otherwise you'll have to provide more details about the request (not personal).

[Edited at 2018-11-19 21:27 GMT]
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Merab Dekano  Identity Verified
Spain
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Scam Nov 19, 2018

"...and you will be getting an advance of $1500 so that the work will be done on time so kindly get back to me..." Are you kidding me? Who writes like that?

The first question we should ask ourselves in this kind of situations: have I dealt with an agency/client who was rushing us to give them out bank details to perform the payment no questions asked? No. Then, scam.


Yolanda Broad
 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 03:57
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
No flags Nov 19, 2018

Elías Sauza wrote:
"Account name
Account number
Routine number
Bank name
Bank address"


This in itself is not a red flag.

In principle there is nothing wrong with advance payment. If he cancels the job and wants his money back, or if he overpays and wants the balance back, you have plenty of time to ask your bank if the money had actually arrived yet, and you may even be able to revert or reject the payment instead of sending money back.

Overpayment scams rely on you not being able to check if the payment is real until well after you've made the return payment. This is why such scams usually rely on cheques or similar payment methods. In your case, however, the client is asking for your bank details, which means that it appears that he intends to make payment via wire or electronic funds transfer. I don't see how such a payment method can be used in an overpayment scam.

It is my understanding that sending money to an account (yours) and then you sending it back to the same account is not really useful for money laundering purposes. However, if he overpays (or cancels) and asks you to send the money to a different account, then it is very possibly a case of money laundering. Although there may be a legitimate reason to ask you not to transfer into the originating account, it carries a high risk.

I'm told that identity thieves can make use of bank accounts, but if you're going to get paid, you'd have to give the client your bank details anyway. If you're paranoid, you can give your account details only if you have been able to confirm that the client is real and contactable.

If you're concerned about giving your bank details, try getting a second bank account specifically for your business, e.g. TransferWise's borderless account. You register with TransferWise and they give you a working bank account number in e.g. the US or UK, so you can give that information to the client.

There were 2 PDFs that I googled and found available on the Web.


This in itself is not a red flag, although it is a bit odd.

I first replied asking for a specific deadline, which originally was 2 weeks. No reply till now.


Well, if it's a scammer, it may be that he will reply closer to the deadline, apologise for the delay and then claim that the matter is now urgent, to put you under pressure to do something stupid.

Finally, if he can afford to pay USD 1500 to an unknown translator, then he should be professional enough to reveal contact details that you can verify. Whenever initial amounts are large, make sure the client is real.


[Edited at 2018-11-19 22:41 GMT]


 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
Danish to English
+ ...
The risk Nov 19, 2018

Samuel Murray wrote:

This in itself is not a red flag.

In principle there is nothing wrong with advance payment. If he cancels the job and wants his money back, or if he overpays and wants the balance back, you have plenty of time to ask your bank if the money had actually arrived yet, and you may even be able to revert or reject the payment instead of sending money back.

Overpayment scams rely on you not being able to check if the payment is real until well after you've made the return payment. This is why such scams usually rely on cheques or similar payment methods. In your case, however, the client is asking for your bank details, which means that it appears that he intends to make payment via wire or electronic funds transfer. I don't see how such a payment method can be used in an overpayment scam.



Detecting fraud is about detecting patterns that deviate from what is normal, not just debating whether something is technically possible. One combines this with ordinary due diligence, i.e. checking who the client is, their company registration, etc.

Wire transfers and PayPal payments, for example, can be abused if the fraudster has hacked an account, is using a stolen credit card number, etc., in which case the money is actually credited to the supplier's account. When the victim discovers the unauthorised payments, the money can quickly disappear from the supplier's account. In the meantime, the supplier may either have provided the service or refunded the fraudster. Consumers' bank accounts are well protected in the US and the EU. In the EU, a bank account holder has 13 months to contest that they authorised a payment, but there is no protection of the supplier, who then becomes the victim.

This is just one way. There may be others. That's why 'know your client' is a good rule of thumb.


Walter Landesman
Michele Fauble
 

John Pinna  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:57
Member (2018)
Italian to English
+ ...
Definitely a scam. I got almost the exact same e-mail today. Nov 20, 2018

Hi Elías,

This is DEFINITELY a scam.

I received the following e-mail today (November 19) after quoting $2000 and having it readily accepted:


"Thanks for your response. I do prefer if you accept payments through direct deposit and to proceed please send me the correct details as follows:

Bank name
Bank address
Account name
Account number
Routine number

Kindly get back to me on this."

... See more
Hi Elías,

This is DEFINITELY a scam.

I received the following e-mail today (November 19) after quoting $2000 and having it readily accepted:


"Thanks for your response. I do prefer if you accept payments through direct deposit and to proceed please send me the correct details as follows:

Bank name
Bank address
Account name
Account number
Routine number

Kindly get back to me on this."



This came after I clearly stately my required payment methods, which obviously did not include giving my bank information to some random entity for direct deposit.


To all on this thread: Unless you are officially employed by a company and have given your social security number to a legitimate business for a recurring direct deposit paycheck, there is NEVER any reason to give anyone your bank information. You would be leaving yourself exposed to identity theft.


Good luck out there!

John



[Edited at 2018-11-20 02:13 GMT]
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neilmac
 

Lian Pang  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 03:57
Member (2018)
English to Chinese
+ ...
I'd be surprised if it's not a scam Nov 20, 2018

Advance payment of 1500 dollars ? That sounds too good to be true.

Would you eagerly pay $1500 in advance to buy a computer which is still in dev phase, without questioning about the specs, the release date, the provider, the retailer, the guarantee, etc etc ?

Sounds like a typical advance payment scam. Just put it in the trash bin and move on.


Yolanda Broad
Josephine Cassar
Vadim Kadyrov
neilmac
MiaLindahl
 

Thayenga  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:57
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
A scam Nov 20, 2018

Nobody ever pays the full amount (as an??)in advance.

neilmac
 

Marjolein Snippe  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 03:57
Member (2012)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Puzzled Nov 20, 2018

John Pinna wrote:


To all on this thread: Unless you are officially employed by a company and have given your social security number to a legitimate business for a recurring direct deposit paycheck, there is NEVER any reason to give anyone your bank information. You would be leaving yourself exposed to identity theft.




[Edited at 2018-11-20 02:13 GMT]


Most of my clients pay by direct bank transfer. If I do not give them my bank details, how would they be able to pay me?


Sheila Wilson
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Teresa Borges
Thomas T. Frost
Wolfram Weinberg
Emma Page
Michele Fauble
 

Merab Dekano  Identity Verified
Spain
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Invoice Nov 20, 2018

Marjolein Snippe wrote:

John Pinna wrote:


To all on this thread: Unless you are officially employed by a company and have given your social security number to a legitimate business for a recurring direct deposit paycheck, there is NEVER any reason to give anyone your bank information. You would be leaving yourself exposed to identity theft.




[Edited at 2018-11-20 02:13 GMT]


Most of my clients pay by direct bank transfer. If I do not give them my bank details, how would they be able to pay me?


You raise your invoice at the end of the project (sometimes at the end of the month, whichever the agreement is with that particular customer).

I have asked several potential customers for prepayment, as I had good reason not to trust them (no Blue Board entry or poor score, the agency asked me to do several jobs “at no cost” and when I refused, they said “ok, we will pay when you deliver”, etc.). Nobody so fas has paid me in advance, and I've been providing my services to my customers since 2010.

Ah, nobody has ever asked me for my bank details. I just issue my invoice and all the details are there.

In other words, scam.


[Edited at 2018-11-20 10:41 GMT]


Wolfram Weinberg
neilmac
 

Wolfram Weinberg
United States
Local time: 20:57
Member (2018)
English to German
+ ...
yes, it my case it was Nov 20, 2018

someone used the account of the registered inactive member Jennifer Gray with an address in florida; this person (?) asked only for the physical address and then mailed a check for $3,500. The check came from a different address in texas to be drawn from a (non-existing) bank in california with no waterwark and misspellings. The postmaster accepted the email thread and the mailing as evidence in their investigation of mail fraud and informed me that more could be done to combat scams if they wou... See more
someone used the account of the registered inactive member Jennifer Gray with an address in florida; this person (?) asked only for the physical address and then mailed a check for $3,500. The check came from a different address in texas to be drawn from a (non-existing) bank in california with no waterwark and misspellings. The postmaster accepted the email thread and the mailing as evidence in their investigation of mail fraud and informed me that more could be done to combat scams if they would be reported with the evidence. perhaps ProZ scam alerts should promote this advice from the law enforcement authority.Collapse


Liviu-Lee Roth
 

Wolfram Weinberg
United States
Local time: 20:57
Member (2018)
English to German
+ ...
you NEVER have to give your social security number - NEVER Nov 20, 2018

if you obtain an EIN number from the IRS for the income tax reporting; - beware, however, of scams that are highjacking the application process and charge a $149 service fee for what is available on the IRS for free.


Marjolein Snippe wrote:

John Pinna wrote:


To all on this thread: Unless you are officially employed by a company and have given your social security number to a legitimate business for a recurring direct deposit paycheck, there is NEVER any reason to give anyone your bank information. You would be leaving yourself exposed to identity theft.




[Edited at 2018-11-20 02:13 GMT]


Most of my clients pay by direct bank transfer. If I do not give them my bank details, how would they be able to pay me?


[Edited at 2018-11-20 14:14 GMT]


 


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