Pages in topic:   [1 2] >
Synergy Projects and ? about bilingual files
Thread poster: Owen owenfw

Owen owenfw
Local time: 18:12
Finnish to English
+ ...
May 1, 2008

Two questions about Trados:

1. Is there an easy way to add a file to an existing project in Trados? I've got a big job coming in multiple pieces on multiple days next week, and I'd like to track them all as one project.

2. Is there a way to convert a TTX into a bilingual rtf or doc file? Sometimes I would like to translated in TagEditor and then proof in Word with both languages and all of the tags still present. I really hate that extra step of having to align my final version in WinAlign if I translate in TagEditor and then export monolingual to proof...


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)  Identity Verified
Thailand
Local time: 07:12
Member (2004)
English to Thai
+ ...
TTX to MS Word May 3, 2008

I reply to only question 2:
I always open the *.ttx file in MS Word or Notepad to proofread/edit and save it again as is (whithout changing file format/coding). Tags of *ttx file are fully preserved in Word or any text editor (with very long tag codings).

Regards,
Soonthon L.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 02:12
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
I don't think you can add files to existing Synergy projects May 3, 2008

So I'm afraid you will have to wait until you have all files to create your project.
But what wonders me ...

Owen Witesman wrote:
...
I really hate that extra step of having to align my final version in WinAlign if I translate in TagEditor and then export monolingual to proof...


What the hell are you doing there? I understand the need of proofreading the file, but aligning files already translated in Tageditor does not seem to be the real solution and is certainly not state of the art.
Why don't you simply implement changes in the billingual ttx in Tageditor.
You can do this either by editing the file in same way as translating (ie opening and closing segments) or switch off the document protection and edit the file without the Workbench. Then you would only need to produce the final file and to do a cleanup for updating the TM.

Best regards
Jerzy


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Owen owenfw
Local time: 18:12
Finnish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
TagEditor is clunky, but not as bad as Word 2007 + Vista... May 3, 2008

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

So I'm afraid you will have to wait until you have all files to create your project.
But what wonders me ...

Owen Witesman wrote:
...
I really hate that extra step of having to align my final version in WinAlign if I translate in TagEditor and then export monolingual to proof...


What the hell are you doing there? I understand the need of proofreading the file, but aligning files already translated in Tageditor does not seem to be the real solution and is certainly not state of the art.
Why don't you simply implement changes in the billingual ttx in Tageditor.
You can do this either by editing the file in same way as translating (ie opening and closing segments) or switch off the document protection and edit the file without the Workbench. Then you would only need to produce the final file and to do a cleanup for updating the TM.


Working in Tageditor I can't see the full formatting, it's hard to see the context of segments, and there is no thesaurus like in Word.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 02:12
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Ever tried the preview-function? May 3, 2008

There is also a preview function for both languages, and when using Word 2003 you can switch to "Compare documents" view, where both languages are scrolling in synchronised mode... (Of course if your documents are Word files).

Working in Tageditor I can't see the full formatting, it's hard to see the context of segments, and there is no thesaurus like in Word.

This does not answer my question. Why do you do aling the files after the proof reading? I understand why you do not like to proof read in Tageditor, but I do not understand why don't you return there AFTER you've proof read the files to implement corrections.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Owen owenfw
Local time: 18:12
Finnish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Cuz I don't like doing things twice. May 3, 2008

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

There is also a preview function for both languages, and when using Word 2003 you can switch to "Compare documents" view, where both languages are scrolling in synchronised mode... (Of course if your documents are Word files).

Working in Tageditor I can't see the full formatting, it's hard to see the context of segments, and there is no thesaurus like in Word.

This does not answer my question. Why do you do aling the files after the proof reading? I understand why you do not like to proof read in Tageditor, but I do not understand why don't you return there AFTER you've proof read the files to implement corrections.


Because re-entering every little change I've made seems like a waste of time. Even going and using WinAlign to update the segments later in my TM doesn't take nearly as much time as duplicating all that editing would. With small jobs I do what you suggest--proof in Word or on paper and make the actual changes in TagEditor, but for anything of much size, it is either a lot of work or very disruptive to the proofreading process. Especially if I have someone else proofread/edit and don't want to trust them with my tags.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 02:12
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
But you're doing things twice... May 3, 2008

When aligning the files, you duplicate the translation done.
What do you then do with formats which are not Word?


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Owen owenfw
Local time: 18:12
Finnish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Better the computer than me May 3, 2008

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

When aligning the files, you duplicate the translation done.
What do you then do with formats which are not Word?


I don't understand the question. WinAlign just overwrites the old units. There is certainly a duplication there, which is why I wish Trados and Word 2007 played nice together (and yes, I have 2003 still installed, which I sometimes use), but that duplication is something the computer does automatically, not something I have to do by hand. With non-word formats I do as you suggest and implement changes in TagEditor from whatever I've proofed, be it electronic or printed, for example printer's galleys of InDesign files.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 02:12
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
So you just trust what Winalign does? May 3, 2008

This is what wonders me so much. If you trust this process without checking it, than you could also forget about any proofreading IMHO.
Every time I need to align files, I must go through them to ensure the segmentation did not went crazy.
Segmentation is the most crucial thing when working with any cat tool, and Winalign does not segment always right...
TBH you are the first one I happen to meet, who's working this way.
I wouldn't trust Winalign, but go trhough the files again in TE, using search and replace in the first place.
But of course if the way you're working works fine for you, there's no need to change that.

As for your wish, Trados would work with Word 2007 - I think the SDL Trados 2007 SP2 does this quite well.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Owen owenfw
Local time: 18:12
Finnish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
What I really wish is that TagEditor would save bilingual .doc files May 3, 2008

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

This is what wonders me so much. If you trust this process without checking it, than you could also forget about any proofreading IMHO.
Every time I need to align files, I must go through them to ensure the segmentation did not went crazy.
Segmentation is the most crucial thing when working with any cat tool, and Winalign does not segment always right...
TBH you are the first one I happen to meet, who's working this way.
I wouldn't trust Winalign, but go trhough the files again in TE, using search and replace in the first place.
But of course if the way you're working works fine for you, there's no need to change that.

As for your wish, Trados would work with Word 2007 - I think the SDL Trados 2007 SP2 does this quite well.


I completely disagree about SP2. There is an improvement, but it is still totally unacceptable.

I don't just trust WinAlign. I do a spot check to make sure it aligns properly. If the alignment gets off, it is really easy to tell at any subsequent point in the file. And frankly, I don't generally care all that much, since I'm mostly doing this for concordance anyway. If I've been editing in Word like I've described, I was working on the final copy of the document anyway, so the TM content is just for my future benefit, not recreating the file.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 02:12
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Word does save billingual doc files May 3, 2008

And Tageditor does not.
My feeling about this is as simple as that: Thanks God Tageditor does not work the Word way!
Even if I was very sceptical when the ttx-way for Word files has been introduced back in Trados 7, now I must say I do nearly all translations in Tageditor. Only when the customer persists on Word files I translate with Word.
But I never had the idea to use Winalign for post processing the files.
Well, one never stops to learn


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Owen owenfw
Local time: 18:12
Finnish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
But why isn't there the option? May 3, 2008

This is getting totally off topic, but I wonder what it is the SDL folks spend their time developing, since the various tools they have (ttx vs. bilingual Word) aren't interchangeable, you can't move back to the previous translation unit without a 3rd party macro (like Wordfast...), external dictionary services don't integrate well (like Wordfast can do...), Synergy doesn't really even attempt to manage projects for freelancers (when it could be a really good tool for freelance project management, offering an add-on that does most of what Translation Office 3000 does for example)... It's like watching LOST--you know there is an answer out there, but you always have to wait until the next episode (or edition of the software) to see if the story is ever going to get anywhere.

Direct link Reply with quote
 

Antoní­n Otáhal
Local time: 02:12
Member (2005)
English to Czech
+ ...
Simple answer to a simple question May 4, 2008

PlusToyz converts between "Trados-ttx" and "Trados-Word-segmented" files

http://www.geocities.com/avvysotsky/PlusToyz.zip

Antonin


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 02:12
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
I'm not SDL folks, but... May 4, 2008

Synergy is the first release ever and it's scope were not managing projects for freelance translators. But even in the actual stage you can use Synergy for freelancers - I did that for bigger projects, where files are distrubuted in a folder structure.
Regarding Word and ttx - why should those ways be interchangeable in any way? Trados is the only CAT software you can get, which allows you different approaches. Any other CAT (like SDLX for example) will press you to do your projects exactly the way it was developed, so where's the difference? This is in fact why I do prefer Trados - only with it I'm flexible enough to do my projects. This may of course result from lack of knowledge about other CATs, but still I can work with Trados and achieve my results in a way I like, not the way the project designer has set.
As for you other remarks - why don't you try to publish them where they belong?
On http://ideas.sdltrados.com you can publish your own ideas or vote for already existing ones.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Owen owenfw
Local time: 18:12
Finnish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
thanks! May 4, 2008

Antoní­n Otáhal wrote:

PlusToyz converts between "Trados-ttx" and "Trados-Word-segmented" files

http://www.geocities.com/avvysotsky/PlusToyz.zip

Antonin


Thanks, this is really helpful (as opposed to patronizing...).


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Pages in topic:   [1 2] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Synergy Projects and ? about bilingual files

Advanced search







PerfectIt consistency checker
Faster Checking, Greater Accuracy

PerfectIt helps deliver error-free documents. It improves consistency, ensures quality and helps to enforce style guides. It’s a powerful tool for pro users, and comes with the assurance of a 30-day money back guarantee.

More info »
BaccS – Business Accounting Software
Modern desktop project management for freelance translators

BaccS makes it easy for translators to manage their projects, schedule tasks, create invoices, and view highly customizable reports. User-friendly, ProZ.com integration, community-driven development – a few reasons BaccS is trusted by translators!

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search