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Count words in Tag editor 7
Thread poster: Marion Delarue

Marion Delarue  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 21:45
Spanish to French
+ ...
Jul 4, 2008

Hello!

My client send me an analyse of the document I have to translate, which says that the document has an amount of words (of 8000 words).
But then if I go to the original document (safari document) and select all the text and count words then with the word tool in a word document (in order to have a control of how many words I translate each day), it says that there is something like the doble of words (18 000 words)...

why doesn´it match?

thank you

[Modifié le 2008-07-04 10:46]


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 15:45
English to French
+ ...
HTML Jul 4, 2008

It depends on what filetype you run the analysis on.

You mention that your document is a Safari document - does that mean that it is an HTML file? If yes, is it a text (Notepad) file? Did you run an analysis on the HTML text file? If that is the case, the answer is simple.

HTML files have two types of text in them - the translatable, intelligible text and HTML code. HTML code doesn't need to be translated, and this is where TagEditor comes in. TagEditor presents the HTML file in a way that you can only edit the translatable text, and the HTML code appears as tags. When you run an analysis on such a file, Workbench counts only the intelligible text - it doesn't count the tags as you don't translate those. If you analyse the text file as a converted Word document, then the HTML tags are counted as well. Line breaks, font types (bold, italics, etc.) and all the rest appear as HTML tags, and there are loads of those in a larger HTML document. These tags can easily represent more than half of the text - as is your case.

I do not recommend counting words in such files any other way than counting them in the TTX documents. You can rely on Workbench's - and your client's - wordcount in this case. Please, do not use any other wordcount method for scheduling purposes as the results are far from accurate. You will be tricked into believing that you have 18K words left to translate when there are only 8K.

Always analyse files in the format you will be working in (in this case, TTX files).

P.S.: If this is the first time you translate HTML, please, make sure that you learn to place tags within segments (internal tags) and that you know which tag means what. It is fairly simple: < b > is for bold, < br > is for line breaks, etc. In some segments, you will need to move these tags around a bit so that the tags are placed as intended in the target segment. Your Trados file formats guide has information on this. If that still doesn't help you, reply to this thread and you will eventually get some help.

[Edited at 2008-07-04 19:04]


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Yuri Konovalov  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:45
English to Russian
+ ...
count of words Jul 4, 2008

It is very simple! Are you using TRADOS or other software? If you do, remember that many words, segments of a sentence or else in your document are used many times, - the software simply plugs them in for you, and you go on.
N'est pas?

Yuri


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 22:45
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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Use Analyse function Jul 5, 2008

In Workbench click on Tools- Analyse. Run it on the original file (or a copy). You cannot do it in Tageditor.
But you can copy the content of the TE-window into an empty Word-file, remove all grey and red stuff (formatting code etc.) and count in Word.


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Marion Delarue  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 21:45
Spanish to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Counting words in Tag Editor 7 Jul 5, 2008

Thank you everybody for your answers...
I will try what you say and I come back to you


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Marion Delarue  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 21:45
Spanish to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Counting words with Tag Editor Jul 5, 2008

I don´t understand : the file in safari is a cleaned file (target file) so when I copy it and paste it in a word document, it has the same amount of words... there is no tags in the file, not code that could explain the wordcount in the analyse doesn´t match (lot of difference) with the wordcount in word...
Besides, I have already translated the amount of words it is supposed there is in the document, and there is still a lot to translate...
I am confused...


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Daniel García
English to Spanish
+ ...
Could it be that there are many numbers? Jul 5, 2008

Marion Delarue wrote:

I don´t understand : the file in safari is a cleaned file (target file) so when I copy it and paste it in a word document, it has the same amount of words... there is no tags in the file, not code that could explain the wordcount in the analyse doesn´t match (lot of difference) with the wordcount in word...
Besides, I have already translated the amount of words it is supposed there is in the document, and there is still a lot to translate...
I am confused...


Hi, Marion,

Could you copy the total word counts shown by the TRADOS analysis, including repetitions and fuzzy matches?

Is the TagEditor file pretranslated?

Does the file contain a lot of numbers? TRADOS does not count the numbers but MS Word counts them, I think.

Daniel


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 15:45
English to French
+ ...
Don't paste it into Word Jul 6, 2008

That is exactly the problem. You should not paste the content of the HTML file into a Word document. Word is a word processor, not an HTML editor, and it doesn't have the right logic for working with HTML files (and therefore counts things it should not count).

What you should do instead is to use Trados Workbench to first analyse (Tools > Analyse) and then Translate (Tools > Translate) the HTML file without converting or pasting it (but first, create a blank translation memory for the language pair you will be using for this job). This will provide you with a TTX file of your HTML document in the same directory where your original HTML file is. If you analyse that newly created TTX file using Workbench, you will get a reliable wordcount.

Of course, since you would be working with a TTX document, you will need to use Workbench and TagEditor to translate it. Once you are done translating, you simply need to Save Target As in TagEditor, and you will have a clean, translated copy of the HTML file that your client can then simply plug into his website.

[Edited at 2008-07-06 06:56]


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Marion Delarue  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 21:45
Spanish to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
tool-translate from TWB doesn´t match with my wordcount (Tag Editor7) Jul 6, 2008

Thank you victoria for your patience with me...

I understand perfectly what you are telling me.
I did all what you did, BUT the thing is that I already translated a lot of the document, and I know how many words I translated, and it is not what the wordcount of TWB says.
I just did the tool-analyse and tool-translate with TWB and it says I have 400 words left... this is very few words, isn´t it?
I can easily count them one by one on the document without the tool-translate analyse of TWB...
well, I can assure you that what is left is much more...

I don´t understand.

thank you

[Modifié le 2008-07-06 09:05]


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Marion Delarue  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 21:45
Spanish to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
tool-translate from TWB doesn´t match with my wordcount (Tag Editor7) Jul 6, 2008

Thank you victoria for your patience with me...

I understand perfectly what you are telling me.
I did all what you did, BUT the thing is that I already translated a lot of the document, and I know how many words I translated, and it is not what the wordcount of TWB says.
I just did the tool-analyse and tool-translate with TWB and it says I have 400 words left... this is very few words, isn´t it?
I can easily count them one by one on the document without the tool-translate analyse of TWB...
well, I can assure you that what is left is much more...

I don´t understand

thank you


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Marion Delarue  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 21:45
Spanish to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
numbers in Tag Editor 7 Jul 6, 2008

dgmaga wrote:

Marion Delarue wrote:

I don´t understand : the file in safari is a cleaned file (target file) so when I copy it and paste it in a word document, it has the same amount of words... there is no tags in the file, not code that could explain the wordcount in the analyse doesn´t match (lot of difference) with the wordcount in word...
Besides, I have already translated the amount of words it is supposed there is in the document, and there is still a lot to translate...
I am confused...


Hi, Marion,

Could you copy the total word counts shown by the TRADOS analysis, including repetitions and fuzzy matches?

Is the TagEditor file pretranslated?

Does the file contain a lot of numbers? TRADOS does not count the numbers but MS Word counts them, I think.

Daniel


Hi Daniel,
thank you for your answer!
this is what the analyse said at the beginning (before I started to translate the document)

Match Types Segments Words Percent Placeables
Context TM 0 0 0 0
Repetitions 4 37 0 0
100% 203 3,755 44 0
95% - 99% 5 153 2 0
85% - 94% 3 15 0 0
75% - 84% 8 115 1 0
50% - 74% 1 8 0 0
No Match 272 4,457 53 0
Total 496 8,540 100 0

Chars/Word 5.26
Chars Total 45,003



and now when I do tool-translate, it says:


Segments: words
Context TM matches: 0 0
Translated: 11 187
Updated 0 0
Total: 496 8540

Terms translated 0


Do you see something wrong?
Thank you


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 15:45
English to French
+ ...
Your current translation log Jul 6, 2008

According to your translation log, you just translated 187 words automatically. But this doesn't tell you how many words are left to translate. You need to run an analysis on the TTX for this.

Take the file you ran the translation function on and run a Trados analysis on it. It will give you an analysis similar to what your client sent you, only it will reflect what you have already translated. Since you translated in Word, there may be matches in your TM that don't exactly match the segments in the TTX file. You can open the TTX file in TagEditor, place the cursor at the very beginning, open the first segment and use the Translate to Fuzzy command - on the TagEditor toolbar, this appears as a grey arrow pointing downward, with two red arrows circling it, a bit like a recycling symbol.

When you use that command, all segments that were translated entirely are skipped until the next segment that is not a 100% match. Open your eyes wide. The segment you see may have a translation in it - but there are probably tags missing from it. This is when you insert those tags in the right places. You would generally place the opening and closing tag pairs around the same phrase in the target segment that they were surrounding in the source segment. Keep going like this until you have recycled all your translated segments and translated those that have not yet been translated.

Chances are that you already have lots of segments that have corresponding translations in the TM, but they don't show up as 100% matches because the tagging is missing. Courage! You will not need much time to fix these. It is only the segments that have not yet been translated that will require time.

All the best!

[Edited at 2008-07-06 14:28]


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Marion Delarue  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 21:45
Spanish to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Counting words in Tag Editor 7 Jul 6, 2008

Viktoria Gimbe wrote:

According to your translation log, you just translated 187 words automatically. But this doesn't tell you how many words are left to translate. You need to run an analysis on the TTX for this.

Take the file you ran the translation function on and run a Trados analysis on it. It will give you an analysis similar to what your client sent you, only it will reflect what you have already translated. Since you translated in Word, there may be matches in your TM that don't exactly match the segments in the TTX file. You can open the TTX file in TagEditor, place the cursor at the very beginning, open the first segment and use the Translate to Fuzzy command - on the TagEditor toolbar, this appears as a grey arrow pointing downward, with two red arrows circling it, a bit like a recycling symbol.

When you use that command, all segments that were translated entirely are skipped until the next segment that is not a 100% match. Open your eyes wide. The segment you see may have a translation in it - but there are probably tags missing from it. This is when you insert those tags in the right places. You would generally place the opening and closing tag pairs around the same phrase in the target segment that they were surrounding in the source segment. Keep going like this until you have recycled all your translated segments and translated those that have not yet been translated.

Chances are that you already have lots of segments that have corresponding translations in the TM, but they don't show up as 100% matches because the tagging is missing. Courage! You will not need much time to fix these. It is only the segments that have not yet been translated that will require time.

All the best!

[Edited at 2008-07-06 14:28]


thank you for your answer victoria...
I am not sure I understand everything you are telling me.
I know the translate to fuzzy tool, and I already used it. (I thought maybe all the words that seem to be left are already translated and are in the TM). But there is mostly no match segments. Sometimes a translation of the TM shows up but very few times...
Maybe it has to do with the tag settings?
I don´t know what to do. I have already translated much more than the words I agreed with the client...
thank you


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 15:45
English to French
+ ...
What file are you translating? Jul 8, 2008

Are you translating a Word file or a TTX file? That is the question.

In this case, you should be translating a TTX file you obtain by running the Tools > Translation function on the HTML file (not on the Word file into which you pasted the contents of the Web page).

What files did you get from the client? Did they give you any instructions on how to go about translating the file? Did they require the use of a CAT tool?

I also want to add that you may have obtained either a Word file or a TTX file which contains segments that are defined as non-translatable (in a Word file, these are usually included between < DO_NOT_TRANSLATE > tags or something similar). If this is your case, then that also may explain why you see 18K words requiring translation whereas the client sees only 8K words.

If you wish, you can send me the translatable document so I can determine what you are working with and explain what you can do, as well as possibly explain the large difference between your word count and your client's. I know it may be too late for this - but this may help you the next time around.

[Edited at 2008-07-08 17:19]


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Marion Delarue  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 21:45
Spanish to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Count words in Tag Editor 7 Jul 9, 2008

Hello Victoria,

I want to thank you really for all your messages and your patient with me....
please accept my apologize, as it was my mistake. In the end I realized the wordcount was fine, and I felt a bit stupid.
The thing is that the text I copied and pasted was a cleaned file (from safari) and as it didn´t have any tags or strange codes, I thought I could paste it. But I realized that in the word document it was doubled...
so everything is fine, and I could deliver the translation without problem yesterday...
Thank you again


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