Terms not showing up using Concordance
Thread poster: Daniela Guanipa

Daniela Guanipa  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:17
English to Spanish
+ ...
Dec 15, 2008

Hi,

I am currently working on a rather large technical project with a huge TM. Due to the nature of the project I keep the Concordance open all the time, as I realy heavily on it. In fact, I also have WorkBench start the Concordance automatically when no match is found in the TM. The problem is I've been noticing that:

a) it does not always show the most recent translation unit first (and yes, I have this option checked); and (most importantly)
b) it does not even show some of the terms I have previously translated in the same document (i.e. on page 5 I translated "house" and when I start the Concordance later on, while on page 20, it has no recollection of it. I am working on SDL Trados 2007.

Has this happened to any body? I think I'm about to go crazy. Specially since Trados might not be showing me terms I've already translated 2 or 3 months ago (or 2-3 hours ago, for that matter), that I've been retranslating, thus jeopardizing the TM integrity.

Help!

Thanks so much in advance for all your thoughts.


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 17:17
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
How big is your TM? Dec 15, 2008

You must imagine, the Concordance search is quite limited.
You can shom 99 entries as max.
The bigger the TM, the faster 99 entries are found - and thus not all will show.
A better idea would be to create a project TM from the big TM and work with this smaller project TM. In that case everything will be working better - faster, smoother.


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Daniela Guanipa  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:17
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
TM has approximately 40.500 units Dec 15, 2008

Thanks for your quick reply, Jerzy. I agree that Concordance has its limitations. However, something strange is happening: I thought that by setting it to show the most recent unit first I should be able to see... well, the most recent unit, which is not necessarily happening. But even more worrisome is that sometimes it does not show units that I know I entered recently (as in the past week or so), and instead it jumps back to fuzzy concordance from way before. It doesn't seem to have any performance issues, it finds all terms in real time, it is just that it does not show the correct ones

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Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 17:17
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
Tough problem... Dec 15, 2008

It doesn't seem to have any performance issues, it finds all terms in real time, it is just that it does not show the correct ones

my usual approach to problems: avoidance;)
i) why do you need to have the concordance available all the time? To get/cut/paste partial hits? If it is terms you are concerned about, then MultiTerm is the way to go.
ii) how do you have your concordance parameters set? Playing with them can help sometimes.
iii) never mind i and ii, it's all magic: there's a lot of heuristics involved in the decision making on what gets shown and it may just be your unlucky week - next week the weather may improve

If that's any help to you, I see this kind of questional behavior as well now and again (especially with short segments). I then go and use maintainance - it's much slower but it gets you all you need and more.

[Edited at 2008-12-15 23:13 GMT]


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Spiros Doikas  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:17
Member (2002)
English to Greek
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Export Dec 15, 2008

your TM and then search it with a tool like Xbench (free) or Search & Replace (commercial).

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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 17:17
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Try to reorganise the TM Dec 16, 2008

set the concordance min. match value lowe (much lower, in fact), make the number of hits bigger.
I don't know if all that will help, but you could try it at least.


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Philippe Etienne  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 17:17
Member
English to French
Some hints Dec 16, 2008

From what I read in previous threads about the matter, make sure that the concordance match threshold is set to the minimum (ie 30% in my own version 7.5) in the translation memory options>Concordance tab.

This minimum means that if you search a small term that is recorded in the TM in the middle of a long sentence, then chances are that Trados won't retrieve it because of this 30% min threshold limitation.

To work around this, you can try searching the word queried together with other words which you know are part of the segment seeked.

Indeed the elegant way to go about terminology is to build a Multiterm term base, rather than use Concordance. Or use the maintenance feature and filters, but this is a clumsier approach.

Good luck,
Philippe

EDIT: Jerzy already mentioned the min threshold, sorry for the doublon

[Edited at 2008-12-16 11:31 GMT]


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Daniela Guanipa  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:17
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for all your ideas Dec 16, 2008

I do agree with Philippe and Vito in that Multiterm would be ideal, however - as you might know from your own experience as translators - it is not that simple. I inherited this TM from the Translation Agency and I receive updates from time to time after a proofreader has changed the TM. Thus, if I create a Multiterm database, it might not be accurate all the time. That's why I need to use concordance. There is an underlying problem here that is not suject to this forum

Thank you Jerzy and Philippe for your suggestion about seting the concordance to a minimum. I will try that.

Again, thanks so much for taking the time to analyze this issue.

Have a great day and Happy Holidays!


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Dr. Matthias Schauen  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 17:17
Member
English to German
Extreme example. Maximize number of hits! Apr 19, 2013

Hi, I have just stumbled upon an extreme example of this problem: I have a 29000-TU TM which contains a certain one-word TU (a heading, looking like this: [HEADING]). Trados Workbench 8.3.0.863 could not find it when opening a very similar TU ([HEADING] bla). Surprised, I checked concordance, and Concordance could also not find the TU with my standard settings (minimum match value 65%, Maximum number of hits 30). After reading this post, I fiddled around with the concordance settings and found that I had to set the Maximum number of hits to higher than 91 for the Concordance to find this 100% match! Changing the Minimum match value only influenced how many addtional TUs with lower match rates were found.

I read an article somewhere here or in the SDL Knowledge Base about how concordance in Trados Studio (with, IMO, a much worse performance) works, and if concordance in Trados 2007 works the same way, this could explain the phenomenon: Apparently, Trados first searches the TM for TUs containing the search term and stops when the "Maximum number of hits" is reached. Only then does it determine the match percentage and apply the Minimum match value. So it seems to be a matter of chance whether Trados Concordance will find a specific TU, even when it is a 100% match.

Do all common CAT tools work like this?


P.S: The "Show most recent translation unit first" never worked in my hands. I suspect that this is simply a bug.


[Edited at 2013-04-19 10:13 GMT]


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