Updating TM without cleaning up the bilingual file
Thread poster: valerius
valerius  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 17:47
English to Latvian
+ ...
Mar 29, 2009

Hello everyone! Sorry, if this question has been discussed before, but is it possible to update the TM in Trados (Version 7), yet to leave the source language text in the document? In my case, I need to update the TM after the spellcheck and the customer wants to have uncleaned files.
Many thanks for your ideas!
Valerijs


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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:47
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
The bilingual file is kept as a .BAK file Mar 29, 2009

I assume you are using Workbench and Word, right?
In that case, after the cleanup, you will see a file with the same name and .BAK extension. That is a backup copy of your bilingual file.
Just change the .BAK extension to .doc, perhaps change the filename to XXX_unclean and then you can open it again in Word and will see both the source and target segments.
Katalin


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 10:47
English to French
+ ...
Easy Mar 29, 2009

Yes, you can update a TM without cleaning up a document. Here is how you do it.

1. In Workbench, go to Tools > Cleanup.
2. Use the Add... button to add the file you want to use to update the TM.
3. In the Changed translations box, check the Don't clean up option.
4. Click on Clean Up.

After this, Workbench will update the TM but will not delete source segments (will not modify the document in any way). Only the segments whose translations in the document differ from their counterparts in the TM are checked - the corresponding units in the TM are updated. Segments that are identical to the units in the TM are skipped by this process.

All the best!


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valerius  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 17:47
English to Latvian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
thanks Mar 29, 2009

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

I assume you are using Workbench and Word, right?

Yes, Katalin, that is the case exactly. And thank you, your suggestion makes a LOT of sense.

ViktoriaG wrote:

Yes, you can update a TM without cleaning up a document. Here is how you do it.

1. In Workbench, go to Tools > Cleanup.
2. Use the Add... button to add the file you want to use to update the TM.
3. In the Changed translations box, check the Don't clean up option.
4. Click on Clean Up.

After this, Workbench will update the TM but will not delete source segments (will not modify the document in any way). Only the segments whose translations in the document differ from their counterparts in the TM are checked - the corresponding units in the TM are updated. Segments that are identical to the units in the TM are skipped by this process.


I considered this, but was deterred by the fact that if I select Don't clean up, it automatically deselects Update TM. But are you saying that it works this way as well?

Valerijs


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 10:47
English to French
+ ...
Update TM option Mar 30, 2009

valerius wrote:

...but was deterred by the fact that if I select Don't clean up, it automatically deselects Update TM.

The Update TM option allows you to clean up the document and at the same time update the TM. But choosing a different option doesn't necessarily mean that the TM is not updated as well. The difference between each option is the mix of three main operations executed: updating the document, updating the TM and cleaning the document. One option only cleans the document (Don't update), one cleans the document and updates the TM (Update TM), one only updates the TM (Don't clean up) and one only applies the TM to the document (Update document).

You may want to click the Help button in the Clean Up dialogue box to see a help page about this dialogue box. If you scroll down a bit, you will see the four options proposed by the Changed translations box, and by clicking on them, you will get a description of each, also telling you what the difference between these options is. Reading the appropriate sections of the SDL Trados manuals could also help with this. Doing so cleared up a bunch of questions for me and helped me to become a more advanced user.


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mrippa  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 16:47
English to Italian
What's the problem? Mar 30, 2009

Are the files on a remote server to which you have limited write access?
Otherwise, if for any other reason you feel deterred to follow excellent suggestions from Katalin or Viktoria:
1) Just copy your file(s) in another location (provided you have enough space on disk) and then proceed to clean up.
2) Send the original uncleaned file(s) to the Customer
3) Profit


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Claudia Alvis  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 10:47
Spanish
+ ...
Keep both copies Mar 30, 2009

Massimo Rippa wrote:

Are the files on a remote server to which you have limited write access?
Otherwise, if for any other reason you feel deterred to follow excellent suggestions from Katalin or Viktoria:
1) Just copy your file(s) in another location (provided you have enough space on disk) and then proceed to clean up.
2) Send the original uncleaned file(s) to the Customer
3) Profit



It's always better to keep both files, the clean and the unclean. Preferably in separate folders to keep your files well organized, and that way you can find them faster. Translation Office 3000 can create the different folders automatically when you start a project--it really makes the job so much easier.

[Edited at 2009-03-30 05:08 GMT]


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Victoria Burns  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:47
Member (2007)
French to English
+ ...
Keep clean and unclean versions Mar 30, 2009

Whenever I complete a translation in Word using Translators Workbench I automatically save two versions, as XXXXX_EN and XXXXX_EN_unclean, then just select the XXXXX_EN version to clean up. That way, if the client later asks for an unclean version to make proofreading easier, it's no problem. It is also good for my own records.

Hope that helps

Victoria


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Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 16:47
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
what about keeping it simple? Mar 30, 2009

In my case, I need to update the TM after the spellcheck and the customer wants to have uncleaned files.

Mixing a TM update with cleaning is just too confusing and if it does work correctly, it's probably an unintended side effect.

I go to Translate (NOT cleanup) and check Update TM (NOT the standard Update Documents check box for pretranslations). Been doing it since ages.

The danger here (as ever) is of course, to forget which check box is checked and the unintentionally infect TM with bad contents (instead of fixing the bad contents with the correct material from TM). But using TRADOS was never without dangers (g).



[Edited at 2009-03-30 10:03 GMT]


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tectranslate ITS GmbH
Local time: 16:47
German
+ ...
Correction Mar 30, 2009

ViktoriaG wrote:

valerius wrote:

...but was deterred by the fact that if I select Don't clean up, it automatically deselects Update TM.

The Update TM option allows you to clean up the document and at the same time update the TM. But choosing a different option doesn't necessarily mean that the TM is not updated as well. The difference between each option is the mix of three main operations executed: updating the document, updating the TM and cleaning the document. One option only cleans the document (Don't update), one cleans the document and updates the TM (Update TM), one only updates the TM (Don't clean up) and one only applies the TM to the document (Update document).

You may want to click the Help button in the Clean Up dialogue box to see a help page about this dialogue box. If you scroll down a bit, you will see the four options proposed by the Changed translations box, and by clicking on them, you will get a description of each, also telling you what the difference between these options is. Reading the appropriate sections of the SDL Trados manuals could also help with this. Doing so cleared up a bunch of questions for me and helped me to become a more advanced user.

Sorry, Viktoria, but that is totally wrong. No combination of the radio buttons in the "Clean Up" dialog will achieve what Valerijs is looking for.

What you're apparently forgetting is that those settings apply to changed translation units only, i.e. units where the translation differs between what's in the TM and what's in the document.

Selecting "Don't clean up" will cause all units to be cleaned except those that differ between TM and document, i.e. the result will be a half-cleaned file at best (unless the TM is empty, in which case all units remain uncleaned.) And contrary to your statement the TM will not be updated if you select this option.

So Valerijs should keep "Update TM" selected unless he has good reason to do otherwise.

The best solution is also the easiest one: create a copy of the file (e.g. in Windows Explorer) and use that for the cleanup (or use the .bak file as uncleaned, but I personally distrust that and prefer to take care of backups myself.)

HTH,

Benjamin


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Emma Gledhill
Switzerland
Local time: 16:47
German to English
+ ...
Separate cleanup from spellchecking Mar 30, 2009

Personally I don't quite trust Update TM to function 100% so I always make (spelling) changes to the segment during the spell check i.e. close spell check, open segment, make the change the spellchecker highlighted, close segment, resume spellchecker, repeat as necessary. It may be a long-winded way of doing it, but it ensures my TM doesn't contain too many errors.

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tectranslate ITS GmbH
Local time: 16:47
German
+ ...
Update TM Mar 30, 2009

Emma Gledhill wrote:

Personally I don't quite trust Update TM to function 100% so I always make (spelling) changes to the segment during the spell check i.e. close spell check, open segment, make the change the spellchecker highlighted, close segment, resume spellchecker, repeat as necessary. It may be a long-winded way of doing it, but it ensures my TM doesn't contain too many errors.

I understand your reluctance to rely on the Update TM feature to work as advertised (after all, I have my own reservations, e.g. about the .bak file) but my experience in years of work with this program has shown that there is absolutely no difference whatsoever between updating the TM via a cleanup with Update TM checked and manual updating of each unit the way you describe it.

Translator's Workbench WILL detect any changes (e.g. for spelling) you have made and WILL write them to the TM when you clean the file with the Update TM option selected. So please feel encouraged to take a shortcut on the long-winded way and just use the Cleanup feature to update the TM with your changes.


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valerius  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 17:47
English to Latvian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
... Apr 9, 2009

Thanks to all! You are very helpful! I now do it the simple way - do the spellcheck, copy the checked bilingual file to "just anywhere" and then do the cleanup of this file. As I'm a real Trados newbie, I haven't tried the other proposed options, but I suppose that when I have some deeper knowledge, they will be much more meaningful to me

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