Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > | Should SDL AutoSuggest function be included in the Freelance edition too? Thread poster: Markus Wahlgren
| I'm just guessing here | Apr 24, 2009 |
AutoSuggestions show single-word or multiple-word terms from the termbases and also the dictionaries, in real time. Since all terms are already indexed in the termbases, I imagine there is no need for Studio to analyze anything. But in the TMs, the terms are not indexed at all, they're segments; so Studio analyzes the segments to match possible term matches and, I'm just guessing here, creates an index of the found terms match... See more AutoSuggestions show single-word or multiple-word terms from the termbases and also the dictionaries, in real time. Since all terms are already indexed in the termbases, I imagine there is no need for Studio to analyze anything. But in the TMs, the terms are not indexed at all, they're segments; so Studio analyzes the segments to match possible term matches and, I'm just guessing here, creates an index of the found terms matches for each dictionary (I think there should be a way to mark the wrong suggestions as incorrect). I don't think the AutoSuggestion feature works like the Concordance tool, the first is for terms, the second is for segments. I don't know if using the TMs right off the box as AutoSuggestions is possible or not, my guess is no. They would have to be prepared (indexed) first, otherwise importing a TM into a dictionary would take no time, and that's not the case. I'm not 100% sure, but I think that at the webinar, somebody mentioned that AutoSuggest Dictionaries will be part of the Freelance suite--although like Vito said, there's a difference between using dictionaries and creating them. They did say that they haven't decided how to distribute the features in the Freelance and in the Pro version. ▲ Collapse | | | Kristina Kolic Croatia Local time: 23:46 English to Croatian + ... SITE LOCALIZER The workflow was presented during the webinar | Apr 25, 2009 |
Andrew Levine wrote: Kristina: You say you've seen the feature in use. Am I wrong? Please, don't get me wrong! I have only seen what was presented during the webinar organized by ProZ a few days ago, but the workflow with this new feature was really impressive However, although the SDL website mentions "leveraging phrases from your TM as you type", during the webinar they mentioned the "AutoSuggest dictionaries" and I am not sure what these dictionaries are: the TM or the termbase or special dictionaries compiled in some other way... but I guess that there should be a tool to feed these dictionaries, otherwise it would not make sense... | | | Two meanings of Autosuggest... | Apr 25, 2009 |
Lutz Molderings (MSc, BSc) wrote: Okay, I think I'm misunderstanding something. The Autosuggest name is something confusing here. It combines: 1) the "standard" terminology hits 2) the autotext entries (this feature is available in Word, TagEditor etc. but I never use it, I prefer the terminology approach) 3) the "autossugest glossaries" based on TMs. Some of us use this term lato sensu (1+2+3), some of us use it sensu stricto (3). Does the AutoSuggest feature generate its real-time suggestions only from the content of its dictionaries, or does is also use the TMs? Only from its dictionnaries (extracted from TMs). If it only uses the dictionaries, which I cannot create with the Freelance version, this feature would basically be useless to me. Yep. In fact, as I understand the SDL statement, if you want to use the autosuggest sensu stricto (3), you're f!#$#%d 'cause you can't create the autosuggest glossaries in the freelance version. Of course, you can still use 'em if somebody prepares 'em (3) for you in the Pro version. If, however, it also uses the TMs, I really don't see why I would need to create the dictionaries. If there is a word or a segment I have already translated, I assume AutoSuggest will suggest it. You're wrong. AFAIK it needs a computational power you can't even imagine. Every statistical machine translation system uses precompiled data. So, Autosuggest don't use TMs directly. You must extract the subsegments first. Maybe the AutoSuggestion feature does use the TM, but perhaps the suggestions are limited to single words. The generation of on-the-fly segments may depend on the dictionaries. Autosuggest doesn't "generate" suggestions on the fly. You must prepare 'em first. And this function will be cut down in the freelance edition. So, in the real life, it's no progress at all in the freelance version. Cheers GG | | | Commercial vs technical discourse... | Apr 25, 2009 |
Kristina Mijic wrote: Andrew Levine wrote: Kristina: You say you've seen the feature in use. Am I wrong? Please, don't get me wrong! I have only seen what was presented during the webinar organized by ProZ a few days ago, but the workflow with this new feature was really impressive Yep. However, although the SDL website mentions "leveraging phrases from your TM as you type", during the webinar they mentioned the "AutoSuggest dictionaries" This is a slight difference between the commercial and the technical speech and I am not sure what these dictionaries are: the TM or the termbase or special dictionaries compiled in some other way... Special dictionaries. but I guess that there should be a tool to feed these dictionaries, otherwise it would not make sense... Yep. It would not make sense. Cheers GG | |
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Calling Trados! | Apr 25, 2009 |
Hopefully someone from Trados can stop by here and sort things out for us. My Live chat person said that TM:s can be used for the AutoSuggest feature, even in the freelance version. Not sure how much confidemce can be put in that thou, or even exactly what she meant. | | | julienwp (X) France Local time: 23:46 English to French AutoSuggest Dictionary creation is like Multiterm Extract | Apr 25, 2009 |
My Live chat person said that TM:s can be used for the AutoSuggest feature, even in the freelance version. AutoSuggest Dictionary creation is like Multiterm Extract. Freelance users won't get that for free. This feature scans memories (or TMX files) and builds a bilingual glossary, based on statistics (eg. a word appears X times in the source and in t... See moreMy Live chat person said that TM:s can be used for the AutoSuggest feature, even in the freelance version. AutoSuggest Dictionary creation is like Multiterm Extract. Freelance users won't get that for free. This feature scans memories (or TMX files) and builds a bilingual glossary, based on statistics (eg. a word appears X times in the source and in the matching target segment - X = threshold defined by the user). Freelance will be able to use AutoText (like in TagEditor) and termbases as a source for AutoSuggest. ▲ Collapse | | | In few words... | Apr 25, 2009 |
Markus Wahlgren wrote: Hopefully someone from Trados can stop by here and sort things out for us. My Live chat person said that TM:s can be used for the AutoSuggest feature, even in the freelance version. In a vague sense, she's perfectly right But TMs can't be used directly for AutoSuggest. You must create AS dictionaries first. And according to http://www.sdl.com/en/sites/sdl-trados-solutions/desktop-products/sdl-trados/sdl-studio-2009-faqs.asp you can't create autosuggest dictionaries in the Freelance version. In few words, you can freely use dictionaries you can't create Not sure how much confidemce can be put in that thou, or even exactly what she meant. She meant BUY. Cheers GG | | | EHI (X) Local time: 23:46
Thank you Grzegorz for explaining. If there is no automatic way for me to feed AutoSuggest with data so that it generates on-the-fly segment suggestions (not single words; that's nothing new), I am not going to upgrade. The only real innovative feature of this new version is real-time segment recognition. If this is limited in the Freelance version to the entries I manually make while I am translating, I will certainly not be able to increase my efficiency for a long ti... See more Thank you Grzegorz for explaining. If there is no automatic way for me to feed AutoSuggest with data so that it generates on-the-fly segment suggestions (not single words; that's nothing new), I am not going to upgrade. The only real innovative feature of this new version is real-time segment recognition. If this is limited in the Freelance version to the entries I manually make while I am translating, I will certainly not be able to increase my efficiency for a long time. ▲ Collapse | |
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Impossible to use previous versions? | Apr 25, 2009 |
Stanislav Pokorny wrote: If you upgrade, you automatically lose the license to the previous version. Although I know SDL Studio is of course TTX-compatible, I'm not willing to abandon TWB and TE that quickly. Neither am I prepared to purchase a new, completely separate license. Will wait till translation agencies start using Studio, which is probably going to take a while. If I keep Trados SDL 2007 on one PC and install 2009 on another, what rule will I be actually breaking? Or will that be technically unfeasible? Antonin | | | Licensing... | Apr 25, 2009 |
Antonín Otáhal wrote: Stanislav Pokorny wrote: If you upgrade, you automatically lose the license to the previous version. IMHO you're right. Although if you have Professional floating, you can use the precedent versions 'cause the licence server checks the "lower or equal" condition. The activated versions may behave in a different way. I.e. it may be impossible to activate a precedent version using newer codes (I don't know, I didn't check it). Although I know SDL Studio is of course TTX-compatible, I'm not willing to abandon TWB and TE that quickly. Neither am I prepared to purchase a new, completely separate license. Will wait till translation agencies start using Studio, which is probably going to take a while. I expect the same scenario. If I keep Trados SDL 2007 on one PC and install 2009 on another, what rule will I be actually breaking? Probably none. You're allowed to install Trados Frelance on two machines. But if your 2007 machine crashes, probably you'll be unable to reactivate it (not tested, of course). Or will that be technically unfeasible? In the SDL licensing world many unfeasible things are feasible. E.g. you can "upgrade" 2007 to 2007 Suite "for free" if you only have the setup file. The mess they have is incredible. E.g. for a moment, after the migration from Trados to SDL licence system, I had a 50 user TM Server on one of my accounts. After (almost) every upgrade, my licences were duplicated (e.g. the old ones on an old account, the new ones in a new one). So, you can't imagine how they will hande it. Cheers GG | | | Kristina Kolic Croatia Local time: 23:46 English to Croatian + ... SITE LOCALIZER AutoSuggest dictionary creation in the Professional version only??? | Apr 25, 2009 |
Grzegorz Gryc wrote: Autosuggest doesn't "generate" suggestions on the fly. You must prepare 'em first. And this function will be cut down in the freelance edition. So, in the real life, it's no progress at all in the freelance version. Unfortunately, Grzegorz seems to be absolutely right. I just checked the link provided earlier by Grzegorz, where it says: "AutoSuggest creation: Dictionary creation with the revolutionary new AutoSuggest feature only exists within the Professional version. The Freelance version will enable translators to open and use AutoSuggest dictionaries, but they will not be able to create them." Source: http://www.sdl.com/en/sites/sdl-trados-solutions/desktop-products/sdl-trados/sdl-studio-2009-faqs.asp So, what is the point of having the possibility to use AutoSuggest dictionaries if I have no dictionaries available to use it??? As a freelancer who provides translation services mainly to direct clients and can, therefore, not expect to receive any AutoSuggest dictionaries from its clients or agencies, this new "revolutionary" function has now absolutely no value. And I will definitely not spend €2.000 just to have this one additional function. How about trading the AutoSuggest function for all other project management functions that are initially designed for project managers and agencies? The webinar presentation of the new software was indeed amazing, but now, after having read these lines, it turns out to be quite misleading. They should have stated loud and clear that the new AutoSuggest function will not be included in the freelancer version but only in the Professional version of the software. This looks like having a printer port but not being allowed to connect any printer to your computer. Nice touch... but very disappointing | | | EHI (X) Local time: 23:46
So, in the real life, it's no progress at all in the freelance version.
Oh, I wouldn't say that! Think of the advantages of term recognition appearing below the sentence you are translating and NOT in the column to your right as we are used to it in Workbench. Revolutionary
[Edited at 2009-04-25 17:08 GMT] | |
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Vito Smolej Germany Local time: 23:46 Member (2004) English to Slovenian + ... SITE LOCALIZER Autosuggest for dictionaries - OK, but for Translation memories? | Apr 25, 2009 |
The idea of Autosuggest started in development systems and was made popular in Microsoft's Visual Studio IDEs - I use it extensively, and thank God or Bill for it too. But then any Autosuggest is as good as the dictionary (or object model when developing software). If the dictionary sucks, no Autosuggest will be able to improve on it - the user will just produce garbage faster (just see that ridiculous Autosuggest 40s movie on yout... See more The idea of Autosuggest started in development systems and was made popular in Microsoft's Visual Studio IDEs - I use it extensively, and thank God or Bill for it too. But then any Autosuggest is as good as the dictionary (or object model when developing software). If the dictionary sucks, no Autosuggest will be able to improve on it - the user will just produce garbage faster (just see that ridiculous Autosuggest 40s movie on youtube - looks like Autosuggest is indeed meant to apply to dictionaries only). Now to translation memory Autosuggest: maybe I am missing the obvious, but right now I see the idea as a suggestion for an "autosuggestable" Concordance search. That looks to me more like a gimmick than a productivity booster. Of course it just takes a good demo or flash presentation, and "we, the sheeple", start to hyperventilate. I'll wait and see. On dictionaries and TMs: if the push goes into the direction of wholesalers (with PRO versions) sharing the work to the retailers with Freelance version, the question of ownership will surface again. But I am not losing any sleep because of it - yet. re licencing ... So, you can't imagine how they will hande it. SDL has a huge legacy iron ball chained to their operation - with all the acquisitions etc, it must be a big nightmare and a serious cost position - but so it is, first of all, to us. After (almost) every upgrade, my licences were duplicated (e.g. the old ones on an old account, the new ones in a new one). Have you thought of loaning them out on a time basis - like mowing machines, drills etc? It would be a nice mezzanine business. And I would be among the first to line up - for a month let's say. Regards Vito
[Edited at 2009-04-25 17:15 GMT] ▲ Collapse | | |
Vito Smolej wrote: If the dictionary sucks, no Autosuggest will be able to improve on it - the user will just produce garbage faster [...] [/quote] Yes, Vito. You're perfectly right. As I often say, with a CAT tool, some people can defecate words faster if the only thing they're really able is to defecate. [...] re licencing ... So, you can't imagine how they will hande it. SDL has a huge legacy iron ball chained to their operation - with all the acquisitions etc, it must be a big nightmare and a serious cost position - but so it is, first of all, to us. True. For both sides. You can't imagine how many hours I spent to discuss my licence problems. Now I'm almost 100% OK but I'll I decided I'll no longer notify problems more than one time. It's enough. And I'll I say to my customers/friends to take it easy. They have more licences than they should have and nobody answers? The problem is on the SDL side. Just keep the track of your actions and forgot. E.g. send your mail to sales at sdl dot com or something like this and don't use words like "buy", "purchase" etc. Nobody will answer. Sure. After (almost) every upgrade, my licences were duplicated (e.g. the old ones on an old account, the new ones in a new one). Have you thought of loaning them out on a time basis - like mowing machines, drills etc? It would be a nice mezzanine business. And I would be among the first to line up - for a month let's say. The problem is the license terms don't allow to loan licences. But I'll probably start to offer very low cost or free conversions. I have a plenty of test machines and too much licences. Automagically, some tme ago all the SDLX Pro and X-Translate licences I owned were converted to Trados Pro A kind of "creative accounting" offered by SDL And with my PSMA ant the recent floating Pro licences price (6000 euro per new licence...) I received a lot of virtual eurobucks now. Crazy. It doesn't makes sense. PS. I have 3 accounts now. The max was 5 or 6 AFAIR. Cheers GG
[Edited at 2009-04-25 20:15 GMT] | | | avsie (X) Local time: 23:46 English to French + ... Running parallel | Apr 27, 2009 |
I've asked SDL (using live chat function on their website) if it was possible to run SDL Trados 2007 Suite and SDL Trados Studio 2009 in parallel. My own reason for asking is because some of my clients are using SDL TeamWorks (a translation management system) and working solely with the TTX workflow. And from experience, I know TeamWorks is really sensitive with the version used to create, translate and post-process a TTX file. A representative wrote me an e-mail this morning, stati... See more I've asked SDL (using live chat function on their website) if it was possible to run SDL Trados 2007 Suite and SDL Trados Studio 2009 in parallel. My own reason for asking is because some of my clients are using SDL TeamWorks (a translation management system) and working solely with the TTX workflow. And from experience, I know TeamWorks is really sensitive with the version used to create, translate and post-process a TTX file. A representative wrote me an e-mail this morning, stating that it was possible to run both SDL Trados 2007 Suite and the upcoming SDL Trados Studio 2009 in parallel. ▲ Collapse | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Should SDL AutoSuggest function be included in the Freelance edition too? Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
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