Multiterm 2009 vs Multiterm 2007
Thread poster: Pavel Tsvetkov

Pavel Tsvetkov  Identity Verified
Bulgaria
Local time: 16:53
Member (2008)
English to Bulgarian
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MODERATOR
Jul 1, 2009

Dear All,

I own Trados 2007 Freelance Suite and I am well aware of Multiterm 2007's shortcomings: the problems with Java that have never been fixed to SDL's shame, and the need to "Load External Databases" which are then stored in an obscure directory on C: (in order to be made available), and then can easily be lost forever if Windows crashes. They are also stored under different names (the original name of the database is changed for some inexplicable reason).

Those two "features" of Multiterm 2007 have made my work more difficult than it should have been, and has caused me to lose termbase data in Windows crashes - I really hope they have been taken proper care of in Multiterm 2009.

Or have they not?

Please, share your thoughts if you own the product... that can influence my decision to upgrade to Trados 2009.


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Claudia Alvis  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 08:53
Spanish
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Multiterm 2009 > Multiterm 2007 Jul 1, 2009

Hi Pavel,

You're first point about Java is, unfortunately, true. I've myself followed every possible solution to the multiple Java conflicts in Multiterm, but they still occur. Although, not as often as in Multiterm 2007, a few times a week I'd say. Sometimes I've had to restart Studio or even my computer, and the problem is gone, so it's not a system issue but a Multiterm/Java thing.

About your second point, that one's gone. You can save your termbases anywhere in your computer and they will stay there. So there's no need to constantly export your termbase as a back-up. Overall, Multiterm 2009 works much better than Multiterm 2007. It's much faster and I love the integration with Studio.

Still, there are multiple threads about many problems with Multiterm 2009, so I were you, I'd check them out too.


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Pavel Tsvetkov  Identity Verified
Bulgaria
Local time: 16:53
Member (2008)
English to Bulgarian
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What kind of problems Jul 2, 2009

Thank you, Claudia!

"You're first point about Java is, unfortunately, true. I've myself followed every possible solution to the multiple Java conflicts in Multiterm, but they still occur. Although, not as often as in Multiterm 2007, a few times a week I'd say."

What kind of problems exactly? My experience with Multiterm 2007 shows that it is either broken or it works, I am not aware of any problems that could be fixed by means of a restart. Please, elaborate.


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Claudia Alvis  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 08:53
Spanish
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Java java java Jul 2, 2009

I gave up on Java a long time ago, I loathe the thing! I just happened to get a Java error right now: The Java Runtime Environment cannot be loaded. That one usually occurs if the Multiterm client is open or has been opened, but not always. This one's fixed usually by restarting Studio.

There's also the 'Several Java Virtual Machines running in the same process caused an error' issue (just got that one as I type). This one's much less frequent, at least in my system, but even more annoying because it causes Studio to crash when I try to close the window. It is also fixed by restarting Studio--I just did that and could enter the terms in Studio.


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Pavel Tsvetkov  Identity Verified
Bulgaria
Local time: 16:53
Member (2008)
English to Bulgarian
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Which version(s) of Java do you have installed? Jul 2, 2009

In Multiterm 2007 problems occurred only if you install newer versions of Java... So which ones do you have on your machine? Or are you saying that Multiterm 2009 has added some new incompatibility issues to the already known ones?

By the way, I have heard complaints that Java is troublesome, but your dissatisfaction with Java may be misdirected in this case: it is SDL who refuse to patch their product so that it is compatible with new releases of Java, so I do not see how Java is to blame in this particular case: they have found faults with older versions and they have released new versions, now it is up to SDL to react (which they have failed to do in a period of over 12 months if I am not mistaken).

[Edited at 2009-07-02 04:49 GMT]


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Claudia Alvis  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 08:53
Spanish
+ ...
Multiterm+Java Jul 2, 2009

Let me rephrase my rant then: I gave up on Multiterm+Java a long time ago, I loathe the thing! It's how Multiterm fails so much with Java issues. I don't really care what causes the problem, SDL should have fixed the problems.

When I installed Multiterm 2009, I set it up with the help of one of the programmers during the beta process so I should have the correct files and configuration, but I really don't know anymore, so any advice is welcomed. I like Multiterm's features and I use it heavily, but the different problems with Java are a major problem. I mean, at this point SDL should have sorted those issues, but then again, SDL should have sorted a lot of other issues too.

These are the files I've installed:



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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:53
English
Try this... Jul 2, 2009

Hi Claudia,

This looks like a common Java issue which should have been fixed by Sun in their latest Java release. Please read the following article from our knowledge base and follow the instructions provided:

http://talisma.sdl.com/article.aspx?article=2529&p=1

I hope this helps.

Many Thanks,

Gareth Powell
SDL Support Team


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Pavel Tsvetkov  Identity Verified
Bulgaria
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All you need is the first two Jul 2, 2009

Claudia Alvis wrote:

These are the files I've installed:





If you want Multiterm to work properly, you need to have installed only the first two in this list. All the newer versions break it down. That was true of Multiterm 2007 and from your comments I can see it is also true of Multiterm 2009.

And as you can see from SDL's response, instead of taking care of the problem, they prefer blaming it all on Java... Well, who is selling Trados - Sun or SDL? Studio was supposed to be a "brand new" product but it seems it has inherited many of the problems of its predecessor. That is very unfortunate. It is not normal to restart the product all the time just to keep it working.

I have never been asked by a software vendor before to manually add / delete values, uninstall / install third party products in a certain sequence, etc., and I do not think that this is normal. Especially for a product that costs as much as Trados.


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Claudia Alvis  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 08:53
Spanish
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I still have the problem Jul 4, 2009

SDL Support wrote:

Hi Claudia,

This looks like a common Java issue which should have been fixed by Sun in their latest Java release. Please read the following article from our knowledge base and follow the instructions provided:

http://talisma.sdl.com/article.aspx?article=2529&p=1

I hope this helps.

Many Thanks,

Gareth Powell
SDL Support Team


Hi Gareth. That I did right after I installed Multiterm. I checked my options and they're still set that way. I have 3GB of RAM and they're all set at -Xmx1536. I don't know if that's enough.

Pavel, do you mean J2SE 5.0 Update 10 only? Or also, Jave(TM) 6 Update 12/13 too? I uninstalled the first and I still get the same problems, no change.


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Pavel Tsvetkov  Identity Verified
Bulgaria
Local time: 16:53
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Java Runtime 5 Updates 10 and 12 is all you need Jul 4, 2009

Java Runtime 5 Updates 10 and 12 - those must have been the current versions when Trados 2007 came out, because Multiterm was made to work with them only. All later versions break it, pure and simple. That was true of Multiterm 2007 and from your posts I learn that it is also true of Multiterm 2009.

Why, two years and two products later, SDL has not found time to make Multiterm compatible with later versions of Java is anyone's guess. My humble personal opinion is that they prefer to fix problems in the next versions of Trados for which you have to pay them. Who else is arrogant enough to call patches "upgrades" and sell them to their clients (the case with Trados 2007 and Trados Suite 2007) instead of providing them for free? The problem of Multiterm's incompatibility with Java, however, is an exception to the above mentioned rule, and has never been fixed.

Here is what you should do on a fresh install:

when the product has been installed (and it will install Java Runtime 5 Updates 10 and 12 as part of the bundle), switch off automatic updates for Java, because they are by default set to "automatic updates". Some people have been able to fix things without a fresh install, but it has never worked for me.

Anyway, Java 6 and Updates later than v12 should not be installed.


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:53
Member (2003)
Polish to German
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I love all those IMHO assumptions... Jul 4, 2009

Pavel Tsvetkov wrote:

Java Runtime 5 Updates 10 and 12 - those must have been the current versions when Trados 2007 came out, because Multiterm was made to work with them only. All later versions break it, pure and simple. That was true of Multiterm 2007 and from your posts I learn that it is also true of Multiterm 2009.

Why, two years and two products later, SDL has not found time to make Multiterm compatible with later versions of Java is anyone's guess. My humble personal opinion is that they prefer to fix problems in the next versions of Trados for which you have to pay them. Who else is arrogant enough to call patches "upgrades" and sell them to their clients (the case with Trados 2007 and Trados Suite 2007) instead of providing them for free? The problem of Multiterm's incompatibility with Java, however, is an exception to the above mentioned rule, and has never been fixed.

Here is what you should do on a fresh install:

when the product has been installed (and it will install Java Runtime 5 Updates 10 and 12 as part of the bundle), switch off automatic updates for Java, because they are by default set to "automatic updates". Some people have been able to fix things without a fresh install, but it has never worked for me.

Anyway, Java 6 and Updates later than v12 should not be installed.


Why don't you try first, before you come out with your humble opinions?
I have Studio and MT 2009 installed on three PCs and do not have any of those Java problems we had in MT 2007.
Here are all Javas, installed on my main machine:



There are for sure many more reasons for MT not working - maybe some orphane registry entries?
On my side no problems with MT 2009 so far. And neither have I seen any problems with MT on all training machines during the last Train-the-Trainer session I attended.


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Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 15:53
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
regarding the need for "Load external databases"... Jul 4, 2009


the need to "Load External Databases" which are then stored in an obscure directory on C: (in order to be made available), and then can easily be lost forever if Windows crashes.

If you had scratched just a little below this surface, you would find a MTBmaster.mdb file, which has been used by MultiTerm to mediate between the mtw_*.mdb files and the user, who expects normal names (like "EN DE cars" or similar). Once I have figured this file and its importance, I never had to "store in an obscure directory" etc anymore.

Funny fallout point: the MultiTerm 2009 does not use it anymore and wants to know directly the place and the names of those files. So now I have a list of mtw_01.mdb, mtw_02.mdb etc , all the way to mtw_45.mdb (g). There must be some utility in the installation deep down somewhere, that would do the trick (i.e. reformat AND rename those MDB files), but by now I guess I am past the point of no return, and I am fine:

mtw 21 is what, "EN SL hazmat" or is it "EN DE SL Eurolex"?
The only thing I still need to do now - after switching from 2007 to 2009 - is to open the good ol' MTBmaster file one more (last) time to check the given names and rename the mtw files correctly.

Regards

[Edited at 2009-07-04 20:04 GMT]


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:53
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
MT2009 installation wizzard does that Jul 4, 2009

When you install MT2009, the installation wizzard upgrades your termbases and gives them "friendly names". If you then open MT and open the termbases you can find those temrbases in your MT catalogue. Then you are only one step from renaming them on your HDD - which isn't done by the wizzard.
Or locate your MTMaster.mdb, open in Access and use that to map your termbases.

The best way to upgrade would however been saving the termbases as *.mdb friendly names in chosen location before you uninstalled MT2007. That way you would then only need to open them once in MT2009.


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Allen Harris
United States
Local time: 08:53
French to English
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Pavel is right Jul 23, 2009

I am writing in support of Pavel Tsvetkov.

On July 4, he said Java 6 and updates later than v. 12 should not be installed.

I had updated to Java 6 on June 27.

Because of this, I was unable to add or edit in MultiTerm 2007 because of "null" and "null point" error messages.

I went to Control Panel > Java > Java Control Panel and clicked the "Java" tab.

Under "Java Applet Runtime Settings," I clicked "View." This opened the "Java Runtime Settings" box.

Under the "Enabled" column, I unchecked the box for JRE 1.6.0_13.

I exited all programs, shut down the computer and re-started it.

When I opened MultiTerm again and performed an add and edit command, the problem was gone.

I thank Pavel for his very useful analysis.


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