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Unclean file format in Trados Studio 2009
Thread poster: Letra

Letra  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 22:28
Member (2009)
English to Polish
Jul 6, 2009

Hello! Does anybody know if the new Trados Studio 2009 can save unclean documents? It prepares a document for translation and then we can save it as a final doc. But what if a customer requires unclean doc or ttx file? What then?

 

Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 22:28
English to Czech
+ ...
TTX, not DOC Jul 6, 2009

Hi,
you can prepare TTX in TagEditor, translate it in Studio and export back into TTX. No way for bilingual DOC though.


 

Raphaël Toussaint
Belgium
Local time: 22:28
English to German
+ ...
New bilingual format: sdlxliff Jul 6, 2009

The new SDL Trados Studio 2009 does indeed not actively support ttx and bilingual rtf/doc files not at all anymore. This means that you cannot create bilingual ttx files from source files with Studio 2009, but you are still able to open existing ttx files and save the changes you made to them in the same format.

Studio 2009 also features a new bilingual format based on XLIFF (1.2) and its file extension is sdlxliff. If a client required bilingual files, that would be the format you send out.
Only if the client had not yet upgraded to Studio 2009, it would become more complicated as (s)he would not be able to handle the new bilingual file format.
Best way to proceed then (in case you have been working with original source files and not ttx):

  • Translate with Studio 2009
  • Save Target as...
  • Perform file alignment with Trados 2007 in order to get bilingual ttx files
  • Send these as well as the cleaned target files back to the client.

Kind regards,
Raphaël


 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:28
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
XLIFF Jul 6, 2009

Yes, Studio saves the billingual file in SDLXLIFF format.
Billingual doc-files canźt be processed and delivered.
TTX files may be processed and delivered as billingual TTX without any limitation.

Best regards
Jerzy


 

Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 22:28
English to Czech
+ ...
BTW Jul 6, 2009

I am having a discussion with Paul from SDL on the importance of being able to create TTX files from source documentation directly from Studio.

 

Irene Koukia  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:28
Member (2008)
German to Greek
+ ...
Any feedback? Aug 1, 2009

Hello everybody!
I was wondering if there is any solution yet...
Thank you very much in advance,
best regards,
Irene


 

Huub Stegeman  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:28
English to Dutch
+ ...
Why would anyone want this version then? Aug 12, 2009

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

Yes, Studio saves the billingual file in SDLXLIFF format.
Billingual doc-files canźt be processed and delivered.
TTX files may be processed and delivered as billingual TTX without any limitation.

Best regards
Jerzy


They can't be processed? Are you serious? Any time I get files from a client they are either ttx or Word, in which case I'm supposed to deliver them 'unclean'. As far as I know, that is the de facto industry standard!

Huub


 

T F F  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 22:28
English to Italian
Oh come on...keep up to date! Aug 12, 2009

Huub Stegeman wrote:

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

Yes, Studio saves the billingual file in SDLXLIFF format.
Billingual doc-files canźt be processed and delivered.
TTX files may be processed and delivered as billingual TTX without any limitation.

Best regards
Jerzy


They can't be processed? Are you serious? Any time I get files from a client they are either ttx or Word, in which case I'm supposed to deliver them 'unclean'. As far as I know, that is the de facto industry standard!

Huub


Not actually, HUUB...
...If the industry leader says that SDLXLIFF is the industry standard it is de facto the industry standard...
It's you and/or your clients not beeing adequately updated and aligned!

PS:...just a bit sarcastic, does it show?


 

avsie (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:28
English to French
+ ...
You keep version 2007 Aug 12, 2009

Huub, you have both versions (2007 and 2009) running when you purchase 2009. You can use the Word process with the 2007 version, as usual.

I don't know if working in Word is the 'standard' process, but I must say I barely use Word. I'm almost always working with TagEditor, or with Studio.

SDL isn't the only CAT-tool to steer away from working directly in Word. Wordfast Pro, MemoQ and many others do the same...


 

T F F  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 22:28
English to Italian
May I help you in any way, Stanislav ? Aug 12, 2009

Stanislav Pokorny wrote:

I am having a discussion with Paul from SDL on the importance of being able to create TTX files from source documentation directly from Studio.


I would love to know your opinion on this...
Personally I have tons of reasons already exposed to SDL people and kindly ignored.

I do hope you will succeed and if there is any way to help you Stanislav, please don't hesitate on asking!

But if you'll fail, do you think we will ever be provided with the "official reason" why the new, powerfull, fantastic, marvellous TRADOS 2009 can open, process, save, clean ttxs, but - it's so strange - it cannot create them?
After all, it is a so simple question: why?


 

Huub Stegeman  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:28
English to Dutch
+ ...
I should probably point out... Aug 12, 2009

... that i would be very happy to never have to use Word againicon_smile.gif !

In the past I've noticed that the big agencies will simply refuse to update to a new version if they don't like the new functionality. So again: it's not so much what I would like to do, it's what everyone else expects me to (not) do.



[Edited at 2009-08-12 16:10 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-08-12 16:11 GMT]


 

Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 22:28
English to Czech
+ ...
@Renato Aug 12, 2009

Hi Renato,
I've been in close contact with SDL people, both on the phone and via e-mail. In my personal, and I stress - my personal - experience, they're much more responsive than other users think.
I had a discussion on this with Paul (who's also present in this forum). He understood my reasons and made a brief survey among SDL corporate clients (read agencies) who reported more or less the same reasons as I had done.
My personal opinion is that the inability of Studio to create TTX files has been a huge mistake that should be removed ASAP. I have no information though whether the TTX creation ability is going to be implemented or not. I only hope it will.
And, uhm, what I'm missing too are CSV analysis reports that can be easily loaded into my project management system. I posted an idea on this but it has had the "Awaiting Review" status since two weeks...


PS: Studio can't clean up TTX files...icon_wink.gif


 

T F F  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 22:28
English to Italian
When 2 halves do not make a whole! Aug 12, 2009

Marie-Claude Falardeau wrote:
Huub, you have both versions (2007 and 2009) running when you purchase 2009. You can use the Word process with the 2007 version, as usual.
...


Hi Marie-Claude,

probably Huub, as me and anyonelse using bilingual workflows, would love to use the new paid features from 2009 on our daily work...
Otherwise - considering that we already had the Suite 2007 - as Huub said "Why would anyone want this version then?"

In other words:
it's not about having 2 halves of a products "perfectly" working, but separately!!!
Personally I would expect to have ONE NEW product, with everything the legacy sw made plus something else smarter!
This is what "upgrade" usally means, am I wrong?

...After all, it's SDL TRADOS (suite>studio) 2009!


 

avsie (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:28
English to French
+ ...
No forced upgrade Aug 12, 2009

AFAIK, nobody forced anyone to upgradeicon_wink.gif That said, I admit the new Studio might not be useful for everyone. Like any decision related to your business, you have to see if it makes sense in your situation to upgrade or choose a certain software. I upgraded because I was enthusiastic with the new features. I'm using Studio for most of my work because except one major client, my other clients rarely ask for a bilingual file. I can choose whichever workflow I prefer for the translation, or even whichever tool I want. And that major client uses a server architecture which isn't totally compatible with Studio yet, so I have to use 2007 Suite. So I'm still 'sitting between two chairs' as we say in French and of course I'd rather use only one software, but I cannot say that I am totally dissatisfied with the current situation.

However, I have to thank Studio for saving the day a few weeks ago. I was translating a rather large XML file in 2007 Suite (a job for that main client), and at a certain point towards the end, I couldn't open a new segment without everything crashing. I tried re-translating the original TTX file, re-translating from the original XML file, etc. Nothing would work, it kept on crashing. As a last resort, I opened my TTX file in Studio and managed to translate the rest of the file without a single crash - back conversion to TTX and target XML was a charm and I could deliver the file on time... Luckily it was all new text so I didn't have to use the client's TM on their server, mine was fine.


 

Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 22:28
English to Czech
+ ...
I can't but second Marie-Claude's post Aug 12, 2009

I am personally glad that with Studio SDL has abandoned the Word template which caused me more than one headache. And SDL are not the only ones to have done so. In fact, no reasonable and profit-oriented software developer can nowadays afford the limitations posed by VBA.

If you need bilingual Word files, there's no need to buy a complex tool that supports a hundred formats: AnyMem, currently sold at € 67, will do the same job just as well. As Marie-Claude has put it, it's your situation and your decision.

It will probably take some time for translation agencies to switch over to Studio. Until then, I will continue to use the SOURCE > TTX > SDLXLIFF > BILINGUAL TTX workflow. I admit, there's one unnecessary step (SOURCE > TTX conversion) and I hope this will be removed with the first SP. None of my clients requires bilingual DOCs/RTFs anyway.

Don't be mistaken, Renato, even Studio allows for bilingual workflows. This is what Project Packages are for.

Pity that one doesn't want to see the benefits, being blinded with finding ways of sticking to obsolete processes and workflows. Pity there have been so many random crashes of Studio too.

"Why would anyone want this version then?"


I suggest that you leave this up to the translators themselves. I believe they are smart enough to make decisions of their own.

[Upraveno: 2009-08-12 18:51 GMT]


 
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