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How to expand and merge segments in Trados Studio 2009
Thread poster: Kathy Prochaska

Kathy Prochaska  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:49
Member (2007)
French to German
+ ...
Jul 8, 2009

Dear collegues,

using the new Trados Studio 2009, I am currently translating a document that my client converted into a ttx document to use with TagEditor (I worked with Trados Suite 2007 until now and my client did not get the new version until now). Everything is fine with the importing process into Trados Studio 2009. Translation and export also work out well. But there are some segments that are "mis-segmented", i.e. in the middle of the sentence, and that I would like to merge in order to have correct translation units.

Until now, i could not find out how to merge segments. Well, theoretically I only have to press "Ctrl+ALT+S", but in practice it does not work. Did this problem occur to anybody else who already fixed it and can explain it to me?

Thank you very much!

Kind regards,
Kathy


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:49
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Select segments to be merged Jul 8, 2009

Splitting is easy - place the mouse cursor where you wanna split, right click there and split.

Merging is a bit more complicated: on the source side you see the unique segment identification numbers. Click the number of the first segment do be merged and while holding CTRL (or SHIFT) key click the number of the second segment to be merged.
Now you can merge them, provided they were not separated by a paragraph break or new cell.


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Martina Márkus
Czech Republic
Local time: 14:49
English to Czech
+ ...
And if... Nov 23, 2009

...there is the paragraph brake or new cell, then it is not possible? I've tried to merge segments many times precisely as the manual /and Jerzy/ says, but with no result - the ikon for merging is always inactive. Is it possible to fix it up by changing settings - abolish the paragraph brake or something like this? Thank you.

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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:49
French to Polish
+ ...
More flexible software... Nov 23, 2009

Martina Márkus wrote:

...there is the paragraph brake or new cell, then it is not possible?

It's not a bug, it's a feature.
In Trados, you can't cross the paragraph/cell boundary.

I've tried to merge segments many times precisely as the manual /and Jerzy/ says, but with no result - the ikon for merging is always inactive. Is it possible to fix it up by changing settings - abolish the paragraph brake or something like this?

If you want to use this function, you should use software with more flexible asumptions like DVX or MemoQ (the list is not exhaustive).

Cheers
GG

[Edited at 2009-11-24 08:39 GMT]


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Martina Márkus
Czech Republic
Local time: 14:49
English to Czech
+ ...
Really can't do it? Nov 24, 2009

Hi Grzegorz,
so, do you say that all my trying was a vain effort? There is quite a lot such a sentences in the source segments devided by Trados that should be logically together and there are not. /E.g. the last word in a sentence is alone as a particular segment/. Other softwares do not behave like this? I would like to translate and not to study a load of many manuals for thousands various CAT tools. So the best solution is to use other softwares too? I see, a translator should really be the jack of all trades. OK then, thank you for your reply.

Bye MM


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:49
French to Polish
+ ...
It's no perfect tool but... Nov 24, 2009

Martina Márkus wrote:

so, do you say that all my trying was a vain effort?

Yep.
E.g. in Excel, Trados supposes one cell contains an entire sentence.
It's obvious in a perfect world but in the real life, it's often not true.

There is quite a lot such a sentences in the source segments devided by Trados that should be logically together and there are not. /E.g. the last word in a sentence is alone as a particular segment/.

In this case, the standard SDL response is the document formatting is bad.
Of course. it's true, it is bad but Trados can't deal with this kind of issues directly.
In fact, it's even getting worse.
E.g. it was possible to edit the source in TagEditor and transfer manualy a part of sentence to another segment, you can't do it longer in Studio.

Other softwares do not behave like this? I would like to translate and not to study a load of many manuals for thousands various CAT tools. So the best solution is to use other softwares too?

So I do
I bypass the Trados editor limitations using mainly DVX and, recently, MemoQ.
I bypass some DVX import filters limitations using Trados.

I see, a translator should really be the jack of all trades.

... ofttimes better than master of one

In fact, it's no perfect tool but the DVX or MemoQ editor general approach is close to perfection.
You merge sentences as you like, you have just another tag to handle.
Simply, these tools have a document structure abstraction layer Trados lacks.

Cheers
GG

[Edited at 2009-11-24 09:24 GMT]


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Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 14:49
English to Czech
+ ...
Not a CAT error Nov 24, 2009

Martina Márkus wrote:
Hi Grzegorz,
so, do you say that all my trying was a vain effort? There is quite a lot such a sentences in the source segments devided by Trados that should be logically together and there are not. /E.g. the last word in a sentence is alone as a particular segment/. Other softwares do not behave like this? I would like to translate and not to study a load of many manuals for thousands various CAT tools. So the best solution is to use other softwares too? I see, a translator should really be the jack of all trades. OK then, thank you for your reply.
Bye MM


Hi Martina,
your problems usually have two different origins:

1. An incompetent author who presses ENTER, i.e. inserts a paragraph break, without actually thinking what he/she is doing. The problem is that MS Word is too widespread and there are only very few people who know how to use it properly.

2. The Word document is an OCRed PDF file. This is even worse because most OCR tools insert paragraph breaks and excessive styles where they don't belong. Thus, an OCRed document requires some pre-processing before it can be opened in a CAT tool.


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 16:49
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
+ ...
Using Deja Vu X for Trados TTX and SDLXLIFF files Nov 24, 2009

Stanislav Pokorny wrote:

Hi Martina,
your problems usually have two different origins:

1. An incompetent author who presses ENTER, i.e. inserts a paragraph break, without actually thinking what he/she is doing. The problem is that MS Word is too widespread and there are only very few people who know how to use it properly.

2. The Word document is an OCRed PDF file. This is even worse because most OCR tools insert paragraph breaks and excessive styles where they don't belong. Thus, an OCRed document requires some pre-processing before it can be opened in a CAT tool.


Hi Stanislav,

I agree that it is not a "CAT error", but we will continue receiving such bad segmented files and that is why I prefer DVX for translating TTX and SDLXLIFF files. You can easily join segments in DVX when translating TTX or SDLXLIFF files.


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Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 14:49
English to Czech
+ ...
Sure Nov 24, 2009

Hi Selcuk,
I already know that, but thanks for your information anyway. AFAIK, the ability to join segments beyond paragraph breaks has been accepted for one of the future Trados releases.
I've heard countless times that DVX is a very good CAT tool but one can't have them all.


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Cristina Godoy
English to Spanish
+ ...
Merging split segments in Trados 2009 Dec 17, 2009

Dear collegues,

I'm currently translating a huge project, and so far I have no "bigger" problemes other than this merging segments issue. I can say at a glance that the proportion of well-divided segments and non-sense (split) segments is 50%-50%, so it's all becoming more and more annoying, especially considering that when I want to check something in the TM, the source segments don't correspond with the translated segments for these split sentences. I don't know whether I've missed some step or did something wrong before starting it all; I've just been translating the segments in a logical order, as if they were actually a one segment, but in return have been skipping this correspondence between translation units, for the translation memory itself.

As I have read here (and checked in the software) there seems to be no possible way of reuniting those split segments, but then I don't understand what the use of the "merge selected segments" icon is (on top of the toolbar), as when I select several source segments and click Ctrl, it appears as deselected. It is right next to the "divide selected segments", which does work.

So, would you recommend me to leave the logical sequence of the translation as it is, which I've done well, and in turn change all illogical correspondences in the translation memory? (good God!! I might finish... perhaps in a week...).

Any help is welcome...
Thanks a lot

[Editado a las 2009-12-17 18:17 GMT]


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:49
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
You must select segments by clicking their numbers Dec 17, 2009

It is not enough simply to mark segments to merge them, you HAVE TO click on the number of the firsts egment to merge, then press SHIFT and click the number of the last segment to merge. The segments to merge will get a slightly yellow background then. If there is no paragraph mark somwhere in the middle, the segments may be merged now.
In case there was a paragraph mark, merging segments is not possible.
I agree that this is a very big drawback on Studio, as I can't merge and at the sime time can't edit the source. In Trados 2007 I simply edited the source in Tageditor and the world was fine again. So the possibility of editing source is IMHO very necessary.

But if your text is segmented because of abbreviations, create a list of those, enter this then into language ressources of the TM (TMs) you plan to use and resegment the file again (it means creating a new SDLXLIFF). Then the segmentation will not go crazy.


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Joel Earnest
Local time: 14:49
Swedish to English
Question Dec 20, 2009

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

But if your text is segmented because of abbreviations, create a list of those, enter this then into language ressources of the TM (TMs) you plan to use and resegment the file again (it means creating a new SDLXLIFF). Then the segmentation will not go crazy.


I assume this would not work with the DOC-TTX-SDLXLIFF-TTX-DOC. Right?


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:49
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Should work for non-presemented TTX Dec 20, 2009

If the ttx is simply created by Tageditor or the translation process in WB without segmenting unknown sentences, then this should also work.
Otherwise create such list in Trados 2007 too and segment the text with this list active.


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Tapsa
Local time: 15:49
English to Finnish
Don't shoot the source player (at least not at Christmas) Dec 21, 2009



Hi Martina,
your problems usually have two different origins:

1. An incompetent author who presses ENTER, i.e. inserts a paragraph break, without actually thinking what he/she is doing. The problem is that MS Word is too widespread and there are only very few people who know how to use it properly.



I have worked with lots of big projects with professional designers, and I can't blame them. For example, I'm currently translating a big project from Indesign files. The designer using Indesign has been forced to use hard returns and other "tricks" to make the layout.

They don't think: "How can I make this to work perfectly with Trados, Dejavu, Wordfast ets. users.". It simply is not their job.

It's the SDL's job to think: "How can I make my program to remove this line break, so that my customer can use the program I have created for him to tranlate this text."


[Edited at 2009-12-21 12:24 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-12-21 12:37 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-12-21 13:05 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-12-21 13:07 GMT]


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Marinus Vesseur  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 05:49
English to Dutch
+ ...
SDL Studio refuses to merge segments Jun 18, 2010

I'm struggling with the "cannot merge segments" issue myself at the moment and am thinking exactly what you wrote. I'm sure these SDL programmers are well-payed people. Why is it that implementation of obvious and elementary functions takes so long and sometimes just never happen. Dreadful!

Tapsa wrote:

It's the SDL's job to think: "How can I make my program to remove this line break, so that my customer can use the program I have created for him to tranlate this text."


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