Letter to SDL/Trados support about the versions horror
Thread poster: Denis Pajtak
Denis Pajtak  Identity Verified
Croatia
Local time: 05:48
Member (2004)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Jul 23, 2009

Hello!
Congratulations on making our lives infinitely more difficult. We (our translation company) had a Trados 7 and Trados 2006 licences and have now upgraded to SDL 2009 Studio. First of all, you changed the interface. It is now clogged as hell and does not even remotely have the simplicity of Trados.
But more importantly, what posessed you to get rid of the old extensions and the .txt import/export?!?
Here is a likely scenario: we are doing a multi-person project; one person has Trados 7, another 2006, one 2007 and the last 2009. How are we to exchange TMs???
Or; since we now erased 2006, how in the world are we to upgrade ourTMs to 2009? An expert I contacted said: "Well, first you export from 2006, import in 2007, then export from 2007 and import in 2009".
WHAT???
That's the best solution? AFTER we deinstalled 2006 to make room for 2009?
This is ABSOLUTELY frustrating and the most non-user-friendly solution to come out in software since Word 2009, but even Microsoft had the decency to give out a patch/converter for files and the option to save in old format - but not the brilliant new SDL Trados.
So, my question, which I'm sure many small translation firms are mirroring: what are you going to do about it?
Thank you!
Denis Pajtak, for
Dučakijević d.o.o.


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Giuliana Buscaglione  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 05:48
Member (2001)
German to Italian
+ ...
2006 TMs can be opened in the 2007 version Jul 23, 2009

Hello Denis,

I am no way connected with SDL and I'm swimming thru my good share of Studio hiccups - as I'd say all up-graders right now, but I am surprised that you were told you have to go thru all these steps.

Of course, I can only talk for the FL version, but I was able to open the TMs I had created in SDL 2006 in SDL 2007 without changing a bit and Studio 2009 upgrades *.tmw files pretty easily. I admit that the upgrading of some TMs might take quite some time (in my case a TM with TE only units, full of tags), but the process is straightforward.

*.txt import/export is not available, but the standard *.tmx 1.4b import/export is there and works fine (and this format is supported by previous SDL Trados versions as well).

As to the different versions being used by freelancers / file exchange issue, *.ttx files are supported by Studio 2009, so I do not see any real issue if all who do not have Studio use TagEditor for the translation (the upgrading to Studio 2009 / the purchase of a new full license generates a permanent SDL Trados Suite 2007 license, so that *ttx can be created in the 2007th version. If I recall well, the ability to create *.ttx files will be integrated in Studio at a later stage)

Giuliana


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julienwp
France
Local time: 05:48
English to French
TMX vs TXT Jul 24, 2009

Hi Denis!

Denis Pajtak wrote:

First of all, you changed the interface. It is now clogged as hell and does not even remotely have the simplicity of Trados.


Don't worry, you'll probably get use to it

Denis Pajtak wrote:
But more importantly, what posessed you to get rid of the old extensions and the .txt import/export?!?

Here is a likely scenario: we are doing a multi-person project; one person has Trados 7, another 2006, one 2007 and the last 2009. How are we to exchange TMs???
Or; since we now erased 2006, how in the world are we to upgrade ourTMs to 2009? An expert I contacted said: "Well, first you export from 2006, import in 2007, then export from 2007 and import in 2009".


Trados TXT is a proprietary format. TMX is definitely better for sharing TMs.
Well, there is still a problem with TMX flavour. I'm not sure Trados 2006 can handle TMX 1.4b. Anyway, there is a tool called Olifant which can help with that - to some extent... It can even be useful for Wordfast users.

Just remember TMX exports will always be the best practice (although Trados TXT is much smaller and faster to import).

Regards.


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Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 05:48
English to Czech
+ ...
A few corrections Jul 24, 2009

Dear Denis,
although I understand your frustration, there is some information you might consider:

1. INTERFACE: First of all, do you mean you upgraded without having read a thing about the new product? Didn't you even look at a few screenshots? As we say in Czech, you have bought a "rabbit in a sack" which is never a good thing to do. Blame yourself for this, not SDL.

2. EXCHANGING TMs: You can always exchange TMs between the different Trados versions via TMX. A quick glimpse into the manual would reveal that. The "expert" you contacted has probably never heard about TMX which is much more suitable for import than the outdated TXT option.
More importantly, you get a copy of Trados 2007 Suite along with Studio, so I don't quite understand what all this fuss is about.

To sum this up:
1. You should have learned more about Studio before you bought it.
2. You should consider adapting your internal processes to the transition to the new product.



[Upraveno: 2009-07-24 09:26 GMT]


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Myron Netchypor  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 06:48
Member (2003)
English to Ukrainian
+ ...

Moderator of this forum
Hi, Denis Jul 24, 2009

I understand your confusion, when you looked at the new interface of Studio for the first time, because it really looks quite different than the one used in earlier versions. But believe me if you get just a basic acquaintance with it, which will take you just a few hours and even less if you are an experienced user of both SDLTrados 7 and SDLX, - you will find the new interface quite userfriendly.

As to the conversion of memory from earlier vesions. You need not make so complicated conversions because Studio easily converts memories from Trados 7, and to all this you need not have Trados 7 on your computer for this conversion.
As to the sharing of the memory, you can do it using tmx-files.

[Edited at 2009-07-24 11:42 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-07-24 11:43 GMT]


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Denis Pajtak  Identity Verified
Croatia
Local time: 05:48
Member (2004)
English to Croatian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Tnanx Jul 24, 2009

Hi!
Thanks to all who have replied!
My problem is connected with the fact that we need to keep working and any upgrading on this scale is just not welcome. Unfortunately (Stanislav) we were basically pushed into this by purchasing the Office 2007 package - which no longer supported our old Trados versions. Add this to the fact that none of our outsourcing staff have this new version and you simply get a pile of problems one is not used to.
However, there were good points brought up and I'll see what I can do -
Thanks again!
d.


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Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 05:48
English to Czech
+ ...
Trados 2007 + Office 2007 Jul 24, 2009

Hi Denis,
you could have upgraded to Trados 2007 which is supported in Office 2007.
Also, I believe that once the stability problems of Studio are resolved (more or less), you will find Studio quite nice to work with.
The old Trados has reached its technolgical limits, so a move to a brand-new product was quite logical.

Cheer up.


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T F F  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 05:48
English to Italian
A different point of view... Jul 27, 2009

-> Denis is wrong because he has not studied the software...
It's not about SDL not giving (at least!) its current customers a trial version!

-> Denis is wrong because he bought the software too hurriedly...
It's not about SDL hurriedly discontinuing the upgrade program for Trados 6 and pushing directly to Studio 2009 (not exactly finished and almost useless for LSPs at the moment!) without an intermediate alternative and cheaper step to just Suite 2007.

-> Denis is wrong because he is not willing to adequately AID the COMPUTER to process his TRANSLATIONs...
It's not about the COMPUTER not being able to adequately AID his TRANSLATIONs.
Note: at the LSPs, the "easy" TMX import/export (+ time and implied possible issue!) happens not once or twice a day, but each {[(translator) + (editor) + (proofreader)] x Language Pair} x Job.

-> Denis has to push his outsourcers to upgrade to Studio 2009 if he want make use of the already paid Studio 2009 Project Management features...
It's not about SDL not adequately securing the value of Denis investment (he has actually paid now the fee requested for what is claimed to be the world widest adopted software...is Studio that software now? )

...Are we sure things are going the way they should go?
Was I left the only one thinking that CAT should not mean "Customer Aided Transactions” at SDL?

I think that Translators and LSPs - in one word, SDL Customers - should stop offering "tortuous" workarounds - making up for the lack of adequate solutions from SDL - and start asking SDL to grant a real Backward Compatibility, not this kind of mess!...As for me, I’ll post here my “open letter” asap!

After all, things you can do manually, can be done automatically as well...That’s what software are for!

Studio will be a very good product...once completed!
Why encouraging Denis to be content with little instead of demanding SDL to finish the job and stop playing with irritating marketing operations? Let's think at the initial "no way back" of "1 year limited 2007 licence to get Studio", or the fact that Studio is able to open, process, save and convert TTXs, but - go figure! - it refuses to create them...come on!!

...I feel like driving on the wrong side of the road...
Could anybody please kindly help me understand where did I get lost?


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Denis Pajtak  Identity Verified
Croatia
Local time: 05:48
Member (2004)
English to Croatian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
yeah... Jul 27, 2009

Well, thanks Renato, You sumed up my thoughts with about 50% less rage and 50% more insight. The end result is the same.
We are the cattle.
Take what's offered, strive to learn it and adapt... Until the software producers say otherwise.
Go us - I feel so empowered.
Some may call it whining, I call it serving us food I personally did not want but must eat.


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T F F  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 05:48
English to Italian
My open letter (as promised) Aug 18, 2009

Renato Renno wrote:
As for me, I’ll post here my “open letter” asap!

Dear SDL,

please make the Studio PM Carousel start working now...Not in the 2011!
The initial plan of getting rid of Tag Editor and forcing the Studio advent in one year has gone...As you saw, giving us a free choice has been a good move: we have liked the new product and we have also started to buy it...Now, if you give us a real chance, we would love to use it as well and spread its diffusion (provided that you'll fix the awful bugs!)

So please, once again, don't be afraid to break the barrier and build a bridge between Synergy and Studio: it could only facilitate the migration towards Studio, because of its important innovation!

After all, how much difficult would it be to design a routine for a real backward compatibility? I'll try (but I'm not a programmer!):
- STUDIO PF: Create new package - > Package for legacy versions (SDLXLIFF will be converted into TTX, and SDLTM will be exported as TMX)
- SYNERGY FL: Open Package > Import STUDIO package (Open the TTX + Create a new TM, import TMX file).
Alternatively, Tag Editor could be equipped with a filter for SDLXLIFF.

If you cannot clear the worry that - once converted into TTXs - SDLXLIFFs could reach the competition, or people remain on earlier version of technology, keep Studio package as is and make available a (?one year time limited?) STUDIO Satellite Version - what I proposed as an idea.com - so that Studio will reach millions of PCs and could be chosen on the field...now!

And please, if the only unclean file will be the new SDLXLIFF file, don’t forget to equip Studio with an “export AND re-import” feature that uses MS WORD as printer...Your competitor does it very well (see what Heiko says here at point n.2), and you are not going to be second to anyone, aren’t you?

Finally, please do things in such a way LSPs are not obliged to force (TRADOS equipped) freelancers to upgrade: allow freelancers a free choice inspired by the quality of your products!

Hoping you trust your new product as much as you're asking us to do,
Kind regards,
Renato Renno


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Claudia Alvis  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 23:48
Member
Spanish
+ ...
Demo Aug 18, 2009

Renato Renno wrote:

-> Denis is wrong because he has not studied the software...
It's not about SDL not giving (at least!) its current customers a trial version!


Actually there is a demo, I think it's just been released:

http://www.lspzone.com/en/Downloads/sdl-trados-studio-2009-demo.asp


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T F F  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 05:48
English to Italian
Quite sad... Aug 18, 2009

Claudia Alvis wrote:

Renato Renno wrote:
-> Denis is wrong because he has not studied the software...
It's not about SDL not giving (at least!) its current customers a trial version!


Actually there is a demo, I think it's just been released:

http://www.lspzone.com/en/Downloads/sdl-trados-studio-2009-demo.asp


Hi Claudia,

I appreciate the optimism that certainly makes you see the glass half-full rather than half-empty...But - unless Denis had this demo available at the moment of his choice (and reading your own words this seems not to be the case) - your post seems a bit off topic here, while a new and different thread would have brought more attention on this very important "innovation"
(BTW, have you tried this "Interactive demo"? Is it actually a "demo version" or it's just a "demo"?)

Again,
Renato Renno wrote:
I think that Translators and LSPs - in one word, SDL Customers - should stop offering "tortuous" workarounds - making up for the lack of adequate solutions from SDL - and start asking SDL to grant a real Backward Compatibility, not this kind of mess!...As for me, I’ll post here my “open letter” asap!


My 2 cents!


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Alexa Dubreuil  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:48
Member (2004)
English to French
+ ...
Trados 7 and SDL Suite 2007 cannot be installed on the same machine Sep 24, 2009

Myron Netchypor wrote:

As to the conversion of memory from earlier vesions. You need not make so complicated conversions because Studio easily converts memories from Trados 7, and to all this you need not have Trados 7 on your computer for this conversion.

[Edited at 2009-07-24 11:42 GMT]


By the way, I attended a Trados webinar in February 2009 and learned that Trados 7 and SDL Trados 2007 Suite cannot be installed on the same machine. Since the SDL Trados 2007 Suite is supplied with SDL Trados Studio 2009 Freelance I assume that this incompatibility with Trados 7 extends to Studio 2009.

However, I have just been told today (24 September 2009) by SDL that Trados 6.5 and SDL Trados Studio 2009 CAN be installed on the same machine.

And for what it is worth, SDL also told me today that the SP1 will be released on 10 October 2009.

I hope this is helpful to any undecided potential buyer of SDL Trados Studio 2009 Freelance like me! Still scratching my head as to whether to buy it or not... Everything I'm reading is not very encouraging.

Other interesting threads (to scare people even more!):
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/145207-a_bugs_life_trouble_with_trados_2009.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/143590-various_beginners_problems_with_studio_2009.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/139438-unclean_file_format_in_trados_studio_2009.html#1165561


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Alexa Dubreuil  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:48
Member (2004)
English to French
+ ...
It's a product demo not a trial/demo version Sep 24, 2009

Renato Renno wrote:
Hi Claudia,
(BTW, have you tried this "Interactive demo"? Is it actually a "demo version" or it's just a "demo"?)


As I am debating over purchasing Studio or not, I have looked at this "demo" and I can confirm that it is not a trial/demo version - it is just an animated demo of the product... and a way to get your contact details at the same time!

I think it would time for SDL to do like Wordfast and provide a full trial version to test the product for 30 days... Not sure this will ever happen though!


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:48
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
An evaluation period, exactly what we translators need! Sep 24, 2009

Alexa Dubreuil wrote:
I think it would time for SDL to do like Wordfast and provide a full trial version to test the product for 30 days... Not sure this will ever happen though!

Exactly. I am very happy that this possibility is offered by the vendors of a tool I am fully evaluating right now. I have 45 days to put it to the limits with all the features and consequences.


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