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Trados RIP?
Thread poster: Heinrich Pesch

Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 04:41
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Sep 8, 2009

So it looks to me that the Trados software bundle has been replaced by a modern version of SDLX. They still call it SDL Trados Studio but technically Trados is dead.
I looked at the demo and it seems we need a really big screen to run the new editor with all its toolbars and integrated windows on top. With Trados it was possible to run TE on one screen and WB on a second screen, but not with the new SDLX 2009 (Studio).
True or not?

Regards
Heinrich


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Claudia Alvis  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 21:41
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Spanish
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Floating and auto-hide Sep 8, 2009

Hi Heinrich,

In Studio, all windows can be undocked or auto-hidden. If you right-click on the header of each window, you will see the choices. You can also close the windows and re-open them from the View menu.

I think you're right about Studio being a modern version of SDLX. The main thing that is missing in Studio is the fuzzy-match auto-propagation, which was very useful in SDLX.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 03:41
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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OT: Fuzzy-match auto-propagation Sep 8, 2009

Claudia Alvis wrote:
The main thing that is missing in Studio is the fuzzy-match auto-propagation, which was very useful in SDLX.


I can't think how fuzzy-match auto-propagation could possibly be beneficial. Please explain this feature to me?


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Sergei Leshchinsky  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 04:41
Member (2008)
English to Russian
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fuzzy-match auto-propagation Sep 8, 2009

I've seen the demo and some webinars. When it finds some fuzzy-match it offers to propagate it further. You may refuse.
It is a silly thing, especially in my language pair. In Russian, we have lots of prepositions, suffixes, and endings and the target may look different whereas the English source may be the same, so you have to check and correct anyway.


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Michael Kazakov  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 04:41
English to Russian
+ ...
Wrong Sep 8, 2009

Sergei Leshchinsky wrote:
It is a silly thing, especially in my language pair. In Russian, we have lots of prepositions, suffixes, and endings and the target may look different whereas the English source may be the same..


Wrong. It is true the Russian morphology is complicated, but it does not apply in this case.

What fuzzy auto-propagation does (at least, in SDLX Edit):
Suppose you have these three blocks:
Hello world
Hello world!
Hello world?

Once you enter the first translation, SDLX Edit will automatically recognize the other two as a 99% match of the first sentence and will insert the translation into the cells. These auto-propagated blocks will be colored in a different color from the rest of your translation, so you will have a visual indication that this is an autopropagated fuzzy match.


so you have to check and correct anyway.


That is a fundamental feature of any CAT tool and you will do it any way with any fuzzy match in any tool.


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 03:41
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
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Completely true Sep 8, 2009

Heinrich Pesch wrote:
So it looks to me that the Trados software bundle has been replaced by a modern version of SDLX. They still call it SDL Trados Studio but technically Trados is dead.

I agree. Now SDL Trados 2009 must compete with other options that have been operating with this design for a much longer time and are far more stable and ripe, like MemoQ, DVX, etc.

Unfortunately SDL's support for the many issues detected by most users of SDL Trados 2009 has been rather weak so far and many people are at the verge of choosing a different tool for their internal processes.


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 04:41
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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TOPIC STARTER
Where's the party? Sep 8, 2009

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

I agree. Now SDL Trados 2009 must compete with other options that have been operating with this design for a much longer time and are far more stable and ripe, like MemoQ, DVX, etc.

Unfortunately SDL's support for the many issues detected by most users of SDL Trados 2009 has been rather weak so far and many people are at the verge of choosing a different tool for their internal processes.


So if Trados is dead and buried, why is nobody celebrating?

This much appraised feature of auto-suggestion, is it a property of SDL Studio or do other tools have it, e.g. DVX? I must confess I'm not familiar with those more exotic tools.

Regards
Heinrich


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 03:41
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
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Uncertainty Sep 8, 2009

Heinrich Pesch wrote:
So if Trados is dead and buried, why is nobody celebrating?

Well, in my opinion right now the appearance of SDL Trados 2009 with so many problems has created market uncertainty that is not good at all for the industry as a whole.

For many years Trados has been considered by many (me included) the way to go, but now many people are exploring other options. These options could create good benefits for the translators, but clearly (the "more exotic tools" as you describe them) could mean a compatibility crack between big agencies (who will probably go for Trados and will prefer us to use it) and translators working for big agencies who would prefer a more sensible (I mean more stable, faster, more flexible with better customisation possibilities) tool for their actual daily work. How the gap will be closed is still uncertain at this moment.

That's why we cannot celebrate right now, I reckon.


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Pablo Bouvier  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:41
German to Spanish
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Trados RIP? Probably, yes in more or less time... Sep 9, 2009

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

Well, in my opinion right now the appearance of SDL Trados 2009 with so many problems has created market uncertainty that is not good at all for the industry as a whole...

...I mean more stable, faster, more flexible with better customisation possibilities tool for their actual daily work. How the gap will be closed is still uncertain at this moment.

That's why we cannot celebrate right now, I reckon


The death of nobody - although it is of a product - is a motive to celebrate. Nevertheless, SDL-Trados has what is deserved. For ages it has ignored the translators opinion about his products, being based on a commercial strategy that imho is very close to a forced sales policiy.

We only need to remember the CAT-tool vendors history and his sales results: MemoQ, a relatively recent provider on the market, strains in listening to translators, incorporating quickly several advances in every new version of his product. The same happened with DVX before the death of his founder and it has been drooping gradually since then. And Wordfast has always put special emphasis in listening to translators from the beginning. Everybody in the translation world knows the marketing strategy results of such approaches.

Trados has never listen to the translators, does not do it and, probably, will never do it, because it will have failed earlier. A forced sales policy addressed only to the big linguistic services providers (big agencies, big translation consumers like the EC or big business, etc.) will not remain unpunished. Any act has a logical consequence. And, the logical consequence of not listening to the end clients (we, the translators who buys his products) and of forced sales is (and should be) the bankrupt in more or less long term.

PS: By the way, for the autosuggestions feature I use Letmetype www.clasohm.com/lmt/en/ since the translation-saurus age...



[Editado a las 2009-09-09 20:37 GMT]


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Edric Barbosa Filho
Local time: 00:41
English to Portuguese
Echoes from the past... Sep 9, 2009

By the way, for the autosuggestions feature I use Letmetype... since the translation-saurus age...


And left at that age, since its development ceased on July 2006...

Useable, but not comparable with Studio Auto-Suggest. The productivity demanded by todays's technical translation market asks for much more improved tools.

SDL Auto-Suggest can get enormous quantity of info from huge memories and termbases and present them in such a smart way that, when I have to use TagEditor or the Word interface, I really miss its drop-down list of suggestions, 90% of the time right on spot...

Edric

[Edited at 2009-09-10 04:25 GMT]


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Pablo Bouvier  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:41
German to Spanish
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Trados RIP? Sep 10, 2009

Edric Barbosa Filho wrote:

And left at that age, since its development ceased on July 2006...


Yes. More than thirty years since I am in the translation business now. Probably, you also do not know anything about that Trados was so to say "designed" with an application called Joust and developed by Alpnet Interlingua in mind.

¿Since many month ago has SDL-Trados marketed autouggest as one of "his best own ideas..."?
Sorry, but it makes me laugh.

[Editado a las 2009-09-10 18:15 GMT]


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Edric Barbosa Filho
Local time: 00:41
English to Portuguese
Studio makes more money to me... Sep 11, 2009

Probably, you also do not know anything about that Trados was so to say "designed" with an application called Joust and developed by Alpnet Interlingua in mind....it makes me laugh


No, I really don't. But, what's the point? I am in translation to make money.

SDL Studio allowed me to raise my productivity 20% minimum. Since I have upgraded my Suite Freelance 2007 to Studio 2009 I have been able to accept more jobs, because I managed to finish them earlier.

Everything helps that: the environment is easy on the eyes, more comfortable, all info you need for the translation is right in front of you and, if you generate autosuggest dictionaries on memories with 25,000 TU or more (easy to find on technical translation), you just do not believe how fast you go! One term written for you here, a whole sentence there and, at the end of the day, you are surprised how that sped you up!

Finishing more jobs with more quality, thus getting more money for the same work, that's what makes me laugh!!!!

Edric


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David Turner  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:41
French to English
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There's nothing really revolutionary about SDL AutoSuggest... Sep 11, 2009

Edric Barbosa Filho wrote:
SDL Auto-Suggest can get enormous quantity of info from huge memories and termbases and present them in such a smart way that, when I have to use TagEditor or the Word interface, I really miss its drop-down list of suggestions, 90% of the time right on spot...


Intellicomplete (http://www.flashpeak.com/icomp/) and Intellitype (http://www.vasanth.in/2006/02/21/autocomplete-anywhere-in-windows/) do about the same job, but anywhere in Windows, and much more flexibly. Such tools have been around for quite a while.


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Claudia Alvis  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 21:41
Member
Spanish
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Some points Sep 11, 2009

I fully agree with Edric, my productivity has increased by about the same, 20%-30%. The thing about Auto-Suggest is that it uses your own TMs, so auto-suggestions really depend on many aspects of the TM itself, the quality of it, the repetitions of terms AND phrases, etc. And it's all done automatically, it's not fast, but the results are worth the wait.

But to me, as I stated many times, the winning feature is the real-time QA. At least for localizations, no other tool I've tried comes even close.

In my opinion, not only Trados is not dead but Studio may be what gets it out of the dog-house. It also depends on how it's used, if it's gonna be used to translate plain non-repetitive, non-hassle text, I wouldn't recommend it; but for things like localizations, Studio, with its advanced features, is a winner. Or at least it will be once the technical issues are fully fixed.


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Edric Barbosa Filho
Local time: 00:41
English to Portuguese
Not revolutionary, but evolutionary Sep 11, 2009

Such tools have been around for quite a while.


Not integrated on a single tool, like you can see in the more complete testimony of Claudia...

The key to the sucess of a modern software tool is the integration of as many features as possible. Everything has been done before, all with some degree of success, but improvement and integration are keys to productivity.

Getting a good tool and integrating its features into another saves time and makes you work better. This is not something "I think", it is something I see everyday on my work!!!!

The natural evolution of those revolutionary tools is their integration, and if you don't keep up on that you'll not be competitive.

A thing of those fast moving times, either we like it or not...

Edric

[Edited at 2009-09-11 15:00 GMT]


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