Studio issue: Referencing a US English TM in a GB English project?
Thread poster: jimmya
jimmya
German to English
Nov 10, 2009

I've been so frustrated by this issue since I got Studio months ago! I still haven't found an answer - and I can't believe I'm the only person in the world to be affected by this issue!

Studio leaves me no choice but to keep separate TMs for target language variants US English and GB English.

OK, but there must be a way of referencing (for example) my German -> US English TM in projects where the languages are German -> GB English.

At the moment I'm having to import individual projects backwards and forwards into the two TMs.

Please help - I can the feeling I'm missing something very straightforward!

Thanks

James


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Joel Earnest
Local time: 07:15
Swedish to English
An explanation Nov 11, 2009

As it was explained to me by a Trados employee, this is impossibler because the two have entirely different language codes.

It'd be great if it could be done. I'm sure people translating to or from other major languages have this same problem. Maybe some form of automated import-export feature is the answer.


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:15
English
More explanation Nov 11, 2009

Hi,

I discussed this with our development team today and thought I would share some of the problems we have with trying to accommodate this. Very happy to hear your ideas on how to overcome the problem.

First of all, the TM requires a fully defined language direction, which involves that both the source and target languages are fully qualified, i.e. include a region code (aka "sublanguage"). The region codes are critical because they control auto-localization - date, time, and number patterns, and sometimes even month names or other information differ by region, which is why the region code is so important.

At this point the only workaround we can think of would be to export the TM, create a new TM in the alternative language direction, and import the tmx into that new TM. The import "relaxes" the strict language equality criterion a bit and will also import TUs in compatible (but not identical) language directions (e.g. an en-gb TU into an en-us TM). You can try this yourself: create an en-us/de-de TM, add a TU, and export it. Then create an en-gb/de-ch TM and import the tmx file. I didn't need to change the default settings when I did this and it worked perfectly.

Various problems may arise and the potential issues are similar, whether a duplicate TM is created using the steps above, or if by some mechanism one could use a TM with a different region code in Studio. They mostly affect tokenization, auto-substitution, and auto-localization (and all three may decrease leverage). For example, during auto-localization, should the project target language region code control the date format, or the TM's? If it's the project, then the TM's future leverage will be decreased in certain cases as (e.g.) an en-US date expression will not be recognized in an en-GB TM anymore, due to the differences in the date patterns. This will prevent correct auto-localization and auto-substitution for the affected TU, and decrease leverage in the future. If it's the TM which controls the localization, you'd get an en-GB date expression in an en-US document, which isn't desirable either and will lead to wrong auto-substitution or increased review costs.

If the need for the use of a different TM was purely for concordance searching then this would make the potential solution easier, and we could look at this. But I hope this explains a little the sort of problems in doing anything more where leverage from the TM starts to become problematic.

Regards

Paul


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jimmya
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Limited leverage anyway - concordance only? Nov 11, 2009

I'm grateful for the explanation - although as a DejaVu user, I find the lack of flexibility rather frustrating (I'd like to be able to choose to do something even if the program thinks it's bad for me!).

However I do understand the reasons, and I accept that a firm grip must be kept on these things to ensure reliable leverage.

Would it be easy to allow a database to be attached for concordance searches only? Because clients and projects tend to stick with one language variant, the leverage in terms of matches is negligible anyway.

This discussion has helped me crystallise a workflow. At the moment I am importing my DE-US and DE-GB TMs into each other – a rather messy process! Instead, I will take advantage of the situation by maintaining separate TMs for each sublanguage and doing as you suggest - exporting into a new TM and changing the sublanguage, then adding the TM to projects with a penalty. This will maintain the language purity of the TMs!

Thanks again for taking the time

James


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 08:15
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
+ ...
Possible solution using a Text Editor Nov 11, 2009

I did not purchase Studio and the licence file given to me by SDL for beta testing has expired, so I can not test it at the moment but a possible solution can be editing the SDLTM file with a text editor, e.g. Notepad++

Replacing the culturename en-US with en-GB may help.

-----------------

Culturename is given for each segment, and most possibly there is no need to replace all culturenames. Language pair of the SDLTM file is indicated in another place. Replacing the first instance of en-US in the file with en-GB can be the solution.

Can anybody with Studio 2009 test it?


[Edited at 2009-11-22 20:40 GMT]


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:15
English
Might be an faster solution using a Text Editor Nov 11, 2009

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:

I did not purchase Studio and the licence file given to me by SDL for beta testing has expired, so I can not test it at the moment but a possible solution can be editing the SDLTM file with a text editor, e.g. Notepad++

Replacing the culturename en-GB with en-US may help.


Hi Selcuk,

A good idea (I have also not tested this though) and it should work, but again only using it for concordance as with the reimport. This would suffer the same problems explained already with regard to leverage so James solution setting penalties on the read only TM's is a good one.

At this stage I think whatever you feel more comfortable with until we have investigated and implemented an alternative.

Regards

Paul


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Joel Earnest
Local time: 07:15
Swedish to English
Idea for automated import/export between TMs Nov 11, 2009

I posted a feature request at the Ideas site this morning for automated imports-exports between TMs with different language codes. It's pending approval at the moment.
It'd be nice if I could set Studio to update my main US TM from my UK TM and vice versa, say every Sunday evening at nine.

Paul, could you please have "impot" changed to "import" in the heading of my idea suggestion?


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Joel Earnest
Local time: 07:15
Swedish to English
Automated import-export feature idea published Nov 11, 2009

http://ideas.sdltrados.com/ideas/detail.asp?i=2630

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