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Can our translator translate without Trados and afterwards I copy and paste into Trados?
Thread poster: Fredrik Pettersson

Fredrik Pettersson  Identity Verified
Hong Kong
Member (2009)
English to Swedish
+ ...
Nov 11, 2009

Can our translator translate without Trados and afterwards I copy and paste into Trados?

Our translation agency has just received a major translation project.
We need to return the finished translation in Trados.doc format and TM and clean files.
The problem is that our translator will not work with Trados, she will do the translation
directly in Word. So I wonder if after finishing the work, can she email the finished translation
to me and I use copy-paste to create the Trados.doc and TM? How long time would this take
if the word-count is 200,000 with numerous tables?


 

Maria Simmen
Germany
Local time: 05:26
English to German
+ ...
Alignment Nov 11, 2009

This is what WinAlign is for. You can align source and target segments and then put the result into your TM and, if need be, run the "translate" feature in order to generate a bilingual (.BAK) file. Copying and pasting as you suggested definitely is too tedious. It's difficult to tell how long aligning a 200K project might take, though, it all depends on the formatting. Just to give you an idea, I recently spent 8 hours aligning 35K.
Another idea might be to send the translator the pretranslated file. Even without Trados installed on the translator's machine, the person will be able to see the font colours and hence can tell the match value. This is important if, for example, the 100% matches must not be edited. The translator then just overtypes the source text with the translation. Furthermore, upon delivery you will be able to clean the result straight into the TM, without having to align it.

HTH

Maria


 

Richard Hall  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:26
Italian to English
+ ...
Yes, but very time consuming Nov 11, 2009

I assume you need to generate an unclean Trados workbench document.

As far as I know, you would have to align the completed translation with the original source document and then export the resultant aligned file to Trados and then retranslate the original document into the target language using the TM you created when you imported the aligned file.

Given the size of the document and the number of tables it would be very, very time consuming.


 

Michael79  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 11:26
Member (2009)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Use winalignment or just paste item in tageditor Nov 11, 2009

Solution 1:

Use "winalignment" while this could be very,very time-consuming.

Solution 2:

Since you mentioned numerous tables,I guess there could be many repeated entries and items out there.

May i suggest:

You open tageditor and copy/paste them "literally" after turning off the protection of tag.


I even called you based on the number in your CV but fount the number "does not exist".It's weird.

[Edited at 2009-11-11 08:15 GMT]


 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:26
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Why would your translator NOT use Trados? Nov 11, 2009

Is it a price matter? In that case, you could perhaps look for a CAT tool that can make Trados-compatible files for you. Paying for the tool and training the translator will be a lot more sensible than copying/pasting and even alignment.

 

Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 06:26
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
I wouldn't Nov 11, 2009

For large projects the translator has either to deliver the translation in the required format or turn down the job. My opinion.
Only someone who knows both source and target language should do any alignment.

Regards
Heinrich

[Bearbeitet am 2009-11-11 08:35 GMT]


 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:26
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Don't quite agree Nov 11, 2009

Maria Bruessler wrote:
Another idea might be to send the translator the pretranslated file. Even without Trados installed on the translator's machine, the person will be able to see the font colours and hence can tell the match value. This is important if, for example, the 100% matches must not be edited. The translator then just overtypes the source text with the translation. Furthermore, upon delivery you will be able to clean the result straight into the TM, without having to align it.

Yes, this would be an option if the outsourcing company were reasonably knowledgeable users of Trados, which does not seem to be the case. When the translator messes things up, for instance by combining segments manually and thus deleting Trados marks or by unadvertedly damaging Trados marks, the company will not know how to fix it.

It is far better to use a translator who is similarly qualified and has a CAT tool or is ready to learn to use one. The volume is just too high to risk technical errors in the files.


 

Michael79  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 11:26
Member (2009)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Trados in China and some tips Nov 11, 2009

Interesting post..here comes my second post.

As a translator who lives the same time zone as Fredrick,I know it well that there could be the case the some agency gets a superb Chinese translator while found he/she has no idea of CAT/Trados or not willing to use them.

My expereince is

1)Your company should have a terminologist to handle this case(i.e.translator translate without Trados or any CAT tool while you need TM and bilingual texts).

2)Never,never attempt to translate texts in Word directly with Trados.Instead,try to use tageditor to process Word file translation as well.Too many benefits of using Tageditor rather than Word-Workbench workflow.


 

Giuliana Buscaglione  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:26
Member (2001)
German to Italian
+ ...
I have to agree with Heinrich & suggestion Nov 11, 2009

Hello Fredrik,

I have to agree with Heinrich, especially when large projects are involved. Another Trados-equipped translator would be the best solution.

In case this can't be done, there is another workable solution, sort of nightmare for the editor / QA person (in case tags are overwritten and many reps are involved, which non CAT-users tend to translate differently if wide apart), but much better than aligning: pre-translate the file (ticking "segment unknown sentences" so that even no matches are pre-segmented) and instruct your translator to overwrite the target, to double-check fuzzies and not to touch tags.

I see some troubles with tables though, as you don't normally see both source & target in the cells.

Translating the whole file in TE would be my choice, tables can be a pain, but if your translator won't work with Trados, there is no point in mentioning it.

Giuliana

[Edited at 2009-11-11 09:15 GMT]


 

Volodymyr Kukharenko
Ukraine
Local time: 06:26
Member (2009)
English to Ukrainian
+ ...
Alternative software Nov 11, 2009

Fredrik Pettersson wrote:

Can our translator translate without Trados and afterwards I copy and paste into Trados?

Our translation agency has just received a major translation project.
We need to return the finished translation in Trados.doc format and TM and clean files.
The problem is that our translator will not work with Trados, she will do the translation
directly in Word. So I wonder if after finishing the work, can she email the finished translation
to me and I use copy-paste to create the Trados.doc and TM? How long time would this take
if the word-count is 200,000 with numerous tables?


In case if the translaion is to be done in Word, you may try using Anymem instead of Trados, as it is much cheaper ad affordable. The resulting bilingual file will be as if it was translated with Trados.


 

Richard Bartholomew  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:26
Member (2007)
German to English
Use .TMX format Nov 11, 2009

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

...look for a CAT tool that can make Trados-compatible files for you. ...


.TMX format is Trados-compatible. Why not do the translation with a CAT tool like WordFast that is simple and cheap and can produce .TMX formatted TMs? Then you just suck the .TMX formatted TM into Trados and go to town.


 

John Fossey  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 21:26
Member (2008)
French to English
Wordfast, no TM needed Nov 11, 2009

Agree with Richard. Your translator can even use the free version of Wordfast. The only limitation is that the translation memory is limited to 500 translation units. There doesn't even have to be a translation memory, or it can be broken into segments. In any case, using even the free version, the translator can then deliver you an uncleaned document which you can open in Trados and create the translation memory. And it doesn't need to cost the translator anything.

 

ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 23:26
English to French
+ ...
WinAlign Nov 11, 2009

If there is no other, more efficient option, I would also use WinAlign. Using WinAlign can be time-consuming, but not if you split the document into smaller documents.

WinAlign can misalign segments. The rule of thumb is that the less segments it has to align, the better it will align them. It is very important to check and correct the alignment results before exporting the translation memory thus created.

Again, I stress that documents be broken up into smaller documents, perhaps no more than a dozen pages each. This really boosts WinAlign's precision and efficiency. Since you are working with Word documents, this will be easy using the outline view in Word. You would thus create a bunch of smaller documents. Once you get the translated documents, you can reassemble the master document in a pinch (after having aligned them to produce the translation memory).


 

ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 23:26
English to French
+ ...
Another option Nov 11, 2009

I just thought of something else that may be very simple to use both for you and for your translator. How about you segment the Word file and have your translator simply overwrite the contents of the target segments?

Using Trados Workbench, you can easily produce a segmented Word file which will contain the purple segment delimiters, and you also have the option to copy the source segments into the target segments. Your translator only needs to overwrite that. Then, when you get the finished unclean Word file from your translator, all you need to do is clean it up and set your options so that the translation units are added to your translation memory during clean-up.

If you do end up using this method, which in my opinion is the fastest and most accurate, then make sure to explain to your translator that she should not touch the purple segment delimiters at all. If one of those gets altered, that can cause unnecessary delays (you would then need to fix a broken document, which in some cases is quite simple, but in others, it can be a mess). Also make sure your translator works with the display hidden text option active in Word. If she wants to proof her translation, she only needs to uncheck the display hidden text option in Word to only display her translation without the source text.

All the best!


 

Anna Sylvia Villegas Carvallo
Mexico
Local time: 22:26
English to Spanish
Simple: pretranslate. Nov 11, 2009

Pretranslate the document and send it to your translator. He/she simply translates the black text (target), and leave the blue (source) as is. Just tell him/her to be careful to not touching the tags.

That's it. And you'll keep your reliable translator with you. It's a win-win situation.

icon_smile.gif

I mean: you pretranslate with your Trados application. (I don't mean that you translate, but Trados.)

[Edited at 2009-11-11 20:45 GMT]


 
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