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a chat with SDL: The prospects of Trados 2007 are... Studio 2009
Thread poster: Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI

Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 00:36
Member (2008)
English to Czech
Jan 4, 2010

Somewhat disappointed by the latest error my Trados 2007 caused in Win 7 (crashes after typing a space after a tag copied from source), I used the SDL chat - maybe some of you would be interested to know:


Thomas: Hello Tomas, my name is Thomas, how can i help you ?

Tomas: Hello Thomas, I would like to ask - if I have some issues (crashes) with running TagEditor (2007) in Windows 7, can I be advised on that without having to buy support agreement?

Thomas: well

Thomas: which version of the Software do you have ?

Tomas: I currently use TagEditor 8.2 build 835

Tomas: and Windows 7 64bit

Thomas: well you would need to upgrade

Tomas: upgrade to which version specifically?

Thomas: i will drop you an email with the best offer

Thomas: but you need to have 2009 studio

Thomas: for Windows 7

Tomas: That is fine I was just curious which version is the solution - I have Studio 2009 but I'm not very happy with the vertical layout in Editor.

Tomas: Anyway does this mean that Trados 2007 won't be supported no more for new oeprating systems although it is distributed as part of Studio 2009?

Tomas: Or that there won't be any compatibility patches for Trados 2007 to work perfectly in Win 7?

Thomas: you would need to install the 2009 Version if you have it already

Thomas: 2007 is not working with Windows 7

Tomas: OK and will or won't there be future software support for 2007? There was an update for Studio 2009 to work fine on 64bit Win7, so I was interested if there is any chance for a similar update for Trados 2007? (It works fine with my Win 7 except for some things.)

Thomas: well i can not tell you that

Tomas: And is there someone who could give me the answer please? I only would like to know the potential prospects.

Thomas: well Tomas, i would not think that a 2007 Patch for Windows 7 will be developed

Thomas: Ideas

Thomas: but please go to above link and log your request

Tomas: Alright, thanks. Just one last question, don't you know if there are any chances a horizontal layout (source and target below, not left/right) be implemented as an option as part of a future update for Studio 2009? I noticed there is quite a demand for that possibility (also in "Ideas").

Thomas: yes please add it into the IDEAS

Thomas: sorry i can not be of any help in this direction

Tomas: Thank you, have a nice evening.

Thomas: Thank you for chatting. Good-bye.


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PRAKAASH  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 04:06
Member (2007)
English to Hindi
+ ...
Thank you Tomas Jan 4, 2010

Hi Tomas,

Thank you very much for sharing this chat.

Big brand names do not mean that they always provide patches/solutions for all the issues, at least in the case of SDL Trados/Studio.

Hope you will reach a solution somehow!

: PRAKAASH


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Laurent KRAULAND  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 00:36
French to German
+ ...
Emulators... Jan 4, 2010

Hi Tomas,
I won't comment on this chat with a representative of SDL Trados as I have chosen another TEnT solution. However, there were a lot of forum posts dealing with Windows emulators over the last days.


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:36
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Vertical vs horizontal layout Jan 4, 2010

There is already an idea on that, so instead of posting new please support the existing one: http://ideas.sdltrados.com/ideas/detail.asp?i=2048

As for the upgrade: people were also quite reluctant against Office 2007, but now 2010 is coming with quite similar layout. And also I must admit, that working with Word 2007 is not that bad I used to think before...


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Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 00:36
Member (2008)
English to Czech
TOPIC STARTER
trouble :) Jan 4, 2010

Laurent, thanks for a hint, but I'm affraid alternative emulators won't include Win XP free installation in them, would they? (Unlike XP Mode for Win 7 - but I'm not able to license Trados 2007 in there.)

Jerzy, I for myself already supported the horizontal idea last week. As for Office 2007, the user interface has indeed changed, but not the way you write the text. If every page had to have two columns, I would probably not go for that. For me it is much more important how I see source and target than if function XY is in menu 1B or IV.c.


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Cristiana Coblis  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 01:36
Member (2004)
English to Romanian
+ ...
horizontal layout Jan 4, 2010

While I do love the Office ribbon and prefer to perform revisions in Office 2007, I am also quite fond of the horizontal layout. I have always suspected that the horizontal layout has played a large role in the success of such tools as TRADOS and Wordfast that used to display text in a natural fashion - source text and translation bellow it. It is much easier for a translator or a reviser to work in a horizontal layout. It is also very difficult to change the way you work completely, starting from the place where you are used to look for the source text and differences in fuzzies. There have been similar questions in some seminars or webinars and I was surprised to hear replies from SDL representatives such as: I am an engineer myself and prefer the tabular layout. That being said, I would have expected SDL to provide the horizontal display option, irrespective if the tabular display feels more natural for engineers, because it is inefficient for a translator to constantly move the eyes from one side to the other when translating or revising. The good news is that other TEnTs are more flexible (and more stable) at the moment and offer this option. The bad news (for me at least) is that, like Tomas, I did trust SDL to produce a solid product and upgraded to Studio 2009, a TEnT that I partly appreciate, but that disappointed me in a number of ways so far.

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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:36
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Vertical vs horizontal layout, revisited Jan 4, 2010

I also belong to those, who claimed the horizontal layout being the best option ever.
Now, after having translated and reviewed roughly 90,000 words in a single Word file in Studio I must admit, that the vertical layout has been better for this job. While when it comes to tagged formats with not just few tags the horizontal layout may still be better for translation, the vertical layout is indispensable for reviewing. I can't imagine reviewing this file without the horizontal view and--what's exactly important--being able to filter the view by certain keywords.
So now, after using Studio since approx. March 2009, I do not miss the horizontal layout so much. Of course I would still welcome the option to switch to horizontal when translating, but certainly I will keep the table layout for reviewing.


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Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 00:36
English to Czech
+ ...
That's what I posted in my idea mentioned above: Jan 4, 2010

Horizontal layout for translation and the vertical one for revision purposes. That would be perfect. The way it is now, there is no selection and I believe translators should be given the choice.

[Upraveno: 2010-01-04 21:28 GMT]


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 01:36
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Studio is technically SDLX 2009 Jan 5, 2010

There is no Trados left, only a further development of SDLX. SDLX editor has had tabular layout as far as I remember, probably from the start. The advantage of tabular layout is the automatic propagation of perfect matches. That means if you change the first item and hit Enter all later 100% matches will be updated at once. In Tageditor you have to change all XXX segments in maybe xx files.
I wouldn't want SDL go back to an obsolete technology like Trados. RIP. I still use 2007, since no customer has made the jump to Studio yet.

Regards
Heinrich


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Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:36
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
propagation shouldn't be a question of layout Jan 5, 2010

Heinrich Pesch wrote:

The advantage of tabular layout is the automatic propagation of perfect matches. That means if you change the first item and hit Enter all later 100% matches will be updated at once.


I can't see why a feature like automatic propagation depends on the layout in any way?


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:36
French to Polish
+ ...
Tabular layout vs internal data structures Jan 5, 2010

efreitag wrote:

Heinrich Pesch wrote:

The advantage of tabular layout is the automatic propagation of perfect matches. That means if you change the first item and hit Enter all later 100% matches will be updated at once.


I can't see why a feature like automatic propagation depends on the layout in any way?

The connection is rather indirect.
I.e. generally, the tabular CAT tools have better internal data structures which help to implement more advanced functions like propagation, sorting, filtering.
They're simply organized as data bases and provide fields for this purpose, e.g. the segment number, status etc.
For this reason, the poor linear TagEditor was simply unable to compete with tools like DVX, MemoQ etc, because internally, it was no logical connection between segments.
So why external tools are ofter used for TTX files in order to overcome it's specific limitations (e.g. XBench for filtering).

In fact, in many tabular CAT tools, the horizontal/vertical layout can be easily switched, at least for the active segment, it's only a presentation of well defined internal data.
Just take a look on DVX, MemoQ, Wordfast Pro etc.

Cheers
GG


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Jabberwock  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 00:36
Member (2004)
English to Polish
Flow vs. grid Jan 5, 2010

efreitag wrote:
I can't see why a feature like automatic propagation depends on the layout in any way?


What's important here is the different between free-flowing interface and a grid (tabular, as Heinrich wrote) one, not horizontal vs. vertical.

In free-flowing interface the segments would have to be reflown after each segment update (somewhat similar to "translate to next fuzzy" in TagEditor), which would be rather hard on eyes and, I suppose, on the general performance. Updating fixed grid is much easier and unobtrusive.

More to the topic: not supporting 2007 is obvious from the business point of view. When most of translators switch to Windows 7 the agencies will have to at least consider abandoning the old version and switching to the new format. Otherwise they will be forced to do all the source-ttx-target conversions themselves.


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:36
English
SDL Trados Support Jan 5, 2010

Hello Tomas,

Thank you for bringing your problems to our attention. We tested your issues internally, and with several external users who kindly attempted to reproduce them on their own W7 64-bit systems, and in all cases we were unable to reproduce the same problems.

So, we would like to confirm that SDL Trados 2007 Suite (Build 863) is fully supported on a Windows 7 64-bit operating system. You are currently using SDL Trados 2007 SP2 (Build 835) which is an older version and was not designed for a 64-bit operating system. This is most likely why you are experiencing stability problems in Windows 7.

We have included SDL Trados 2007 Suite with the SDL Trados Studio 2009 package. I therefore recommend you uninstall your current version of SDL Trados 2007 and download and install the latest Suite version of 2007 from your customer account. You can find it under My Downloads > SDL Trados Studio 2009 Freelance Plus

You should then have no compatibility problems with Windows 7. However, if you do experience issues then please visit the Solution Finder at http://talisma.sdl.com and follow the steps accordingly. If your solution is not found then you can log a case for the support team who will contact you back as soon as possible.

I hope this helps.

Many Thanks,

Gareth Powell
SDL Support Team


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Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 00:36
Member (2008)
English to Czech
TOPIC STARTER
thanks Jan 5, 2010

Dear Gareth,

thanks for your reply. I will try to log a case once I have a minute - is it OK to use any "New Request" table in the Solution Finder, or do I have to go through a specific way?

As for build 863, I am aware of it and was using that earlier, but I noticed that with this update (or some part of it, can't say exactly - my idea is that this malfunction could be caused by MS Interop Assemblies included in the update, but that's just my guess), Word spellcheck plugin did not work - reported no typos etc. (and in addition spellcheck in Word itself started to behave badly).

This was observed on a clean installation of Windows 7 64bit + Word 2007. Spellcheck worked well with 835, but it wasn't so once I installed (just about one hour after 835 installation) upgrade to 863. That's why I had to return to 835.

Just to make sure, the functionality should be the same if I install a) Trados 2007 (835) and then the Suite Patch / update (863), or b) directly the file SDLTrados2007Suite_FL_863.exe (from the 2009 folder), right?


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:36
English
SDL Trados Support Jan 5, 2010

Hi Tomas,

You may experience problems when installing build 835 on Windows 7 64-bit. I therefore recommend uninstalling SDL Trados 2007 first and then installing the full SDLTrados2007Suite_FL_863.exe installer.

If you are still experiencing a problem then I recommend you follow these steps through the Solution Finder to log a case:

1. Download & Installation Problems
2. I get an error message during installation.
3. I get another error message.

You will then be given as support form to fill in and send to our support team. We can then start a remote desktop support session and take a look at the problem for you.

I hope this helps.

Many Thanks,

Gareth Powell
SDL Support Team


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