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Buying Trados for the first time
Thread poster: Isabel Conde

Isabel Conde  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 14:43
English to Spanish
+ ...
Mar 15, 2010

I bought Trados Studio which came with Trados 2007. That was nice. I started learning Trados 2007, when suddenly my instructor told me that I only can use Multiterm in the Studio application.

I felt that SDL was kidding me. It is as if I had bought two expensive rectangle table, but one of them came with 3 legs. I feel they are forcing me to use Studio right now. How I am going to do when a client send me a glossary if I am using Trados 2007? Because if I want to use it anyway, I can still export my glossary from WinAlign and import them in Workbench. But, still, it is a lot of work and time consuming.

Can SDL give me the 4th leg of the table? I think I have the right to have it. Can someone from SDL answer these questions?

Argee01


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:43
French to Polish
+ ...
LOL Mar 15, 2010

argee01 wrote:

I bought Trados Studio which came with Trados 2007. That was nice. I started learning Trados 2007, when suddenly my instructor told me that I only can use Multiterm in the Studio application.

LOL.
LOL.

I felt that SDL was kidding me. It is as if I had bought two expensive rectangle table, but one of them came with 3 legs. I feel they are forcing me to use Studio right now. How I am going to do when a client send me a glossary if I am using Trados 2007? Because if I want to use it anyway, I can still export my glossary from WinAlign and import them in Workbench. But, still, it is a lot of work and time consuming.

Can SDL give me the 4th leg of the table? I think I have the right to have it. Can someone from SDL answer these questions?

The 4th leg exist.
It's visibly shorter but it exist

Multiterm 2009 works well with Trados 2007 and I consider it's better than Multiterm 2007.
You have dowloaded and installed it?

Cheers
GG


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Isabel Conde  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 14:43
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Hi Grzegorz, Mar 15, 2010

I am happy I made laugh someone today. I just believed what my instructor told me. It sounded very strange, though...
Yes, I downloaded it and I was about to import a glossary from Excel. I will contact my instructor.

Thank you for this peace of mind,

Argee01


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:43
French to Polish
+ ...
There are two kinds of translators... Mar 16, 2010

argee01 wrote:

I am happy I made laugh someone today. I just believed what my instructor told me.

Never believe the instructors

Yes, I downloaded it and I was about to import a glossary from Excel. I will contact my instructor.

Thank you for this peace of mind,

I think your case is rather "normal".
The Multterm iX/7.0/2007 line was a crap, i.e. the installation routines were not reliable, it was often impossible to setup it correctly.
E.g., me, I never achieved to make work the iX (6.x) versions but I was younger and less experienced
So, as a lot of people was unable to make it work, the tool never achieved an "entry level", I know a damn lot of people who never use(d) Multiterm.
Even Trados/SDL ships the trial and the Starter edition without Multiterm.
So, a the bad joke below is often well founded.

There are two kinds of translators, those who understand the importance of terminology and the Trados users.

Cheers
GG


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Isabel Conde  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 14:43
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Nice to hear from you Mar 16, 2010

You say:"I know a damn lot of people who never use(d) Multiterm."

WOW, I could not conceive a CAT Tool without terminology access. What would be the sense of having that kind of software, then?

Fortunately, I already installed it in Workbench and it is working.

Have a good one,

Argee01


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Bjørnar Magnussen  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:43
English to Norwegian
+ ...
Most of my colleagues don't use MultiTerm as well Mar 17, 2010

Grzegorz Gryc wrote:
I know a damn lot of people who never use(d) Multiterm.


Yes, this is true - in fact most of my colleagues don't use it. They have never been able to get it to work and are thus not aware of it's power.

The most experienced of them have found workarounds like inserting placeholders for long terms and change them with find/replace after translation. One colleague uses AutoCorrect in Word.

It also took me several years before I was able to get MultiTerm to work (and only after referring to this forum repeatedly).

That being said, MultiTerm 2009 is more stable (but alas, it's still based upon JRE, so if something is wrong with your JRE installation, you need to spend some time fixing it).





[Edited at 2010-03-17 07:52 GMT]


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:43
French to Polish
+ ...
Multiterm on Proz... Java... Mar 17, 2010

Bjørnar Magnussen wrote:

Grzegorz Gryc wrote:
I know a damn lot of people who never use(d) Multiterm.


Yes, this is true - in fact most of my colleagues don't use it. They have never been able to get it to work and are thus not aware of it's power.

So I always repeat.
Muliterm has very strong basic recognition algorithms, probably the best in this market part sector, but the way they're implemented is a shame.

It also took me several years before I was able to get MultiTerm to work (and only after referring to this forum repeatedly).

Well.
I think it's significative the people start to use Multiterm, e.g. see the number of the
MT related posts at the first screen of the SDL products related forum today.
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/160321-how_to_clean_a_multiterm_termbase_from_repetitive_entries.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/160478-unable_to_install_multiterm_2009_sp2.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/160474-problem_with_term_recognition_options_multiterm_7_cannot_be_activated.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/160462-getting_multiterm_to_identify_asian_words_without_spaces_between_them.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/159529-sdl_multiterm_8112640_sp2_probem_cannot_add_or_edit_terms_from_inside_studio_sp2.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/160267-multiterm_2009_cannot_open_termbase_nor_create_one.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/160039-converting_multilingual_termbase_into_excel_document.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/160226-tbx_file_with_trados.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/159715-term_recognition_not_working_any_more_after_update_to_studio_2009_sp2.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/160303-multiterm_2007_not_working_anymore_after_running_launchstudiobat_to_fix_term_recognition_problem.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/123305-how_to_install_multiterm_2007_on_vista_64_howto.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/160283-multiterm_convert_2007_2009_error:_exception_from_hresult_0x80040154.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/160210-problems_with_term_recognition_in_trados_studio.html
But the number of basic problems kinda "doesn't work at all" is really too high.

BTW, I would add
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/160420-is_it_possible_to_make_only_a_basic_use_of_studio.html
which mentions it too.
It's little bit a flame war but rather quiet and well argumented.

That being said, MultiTerm 2009 is more stable (but alas, it's still based upon JRE, so if something is wrong with your JRE installation, you need to spend some time fixing it).

Indeed, it's more stable.
But when you consider the number of the abovementionned posts related mainly to MT2009, imagine the crap the previous Multiterm versions were...
As Bjørnar said, the main problem is Multiterm uses Java the Multiterm programmers are/were simply unable to code correctly.

Cheers
GG


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Bjørnar Magnussen  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:43
English to Norwegian
+ ...
What do you mean by recognition algorithms Mar 17, 2010

Grzegorz Gryc wrote:

Muliterm has very strong basic recognition algorithms, probably the best in this market part sector, but the way they're implemented is a shame.



Do you mean that it is able to find terms that are not exact matches? Is it better than Deja Vu in this aspect?


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:43
French to Polish
+ ...
Multiterm, DVX, MemoQ... Mar 17, 2010

Bjørnar Magnussen wrote:

Grzegorz Gryc wrote:

Muliterm has very strong basic recognition algorithms, probably the best in this market sector, but the way they're implemented is a shame.

Do you mean that it is able to find terms that are not exact matches?

Yes.

Is it better than Deja Vu in this aspect?

Yes.
E.g. the matching for multiword lemmas in heavily inflected languages.
Let's say, you translate from Polish an expression like dwubiegowa wiertarka udarowa (two speed impact drill).
If you put the Nominative in your termbase, DVX will not recognize the Genitive i.e. dwubiegowej wiertarki udarowej etc.
Multiterm will do.
The same with some discontinous lemmas kinda bring up.
Multiterm may sometimes recognize bring XXX up if XXX is not too long.
DVX will never do it.

I have a lot od workable workarounds for DVX but the truth is Multiterm is simply better.
Nevertheless, I use rather DVX because of other features Trados terribly lacks.

BTW.
In MemoQ I can use pipes in order to separate the "stem" and the "ending" (yes, I know I'm imprecise), e.g.
dwubiegow|a wiertar|ka udarow|a
In this way, all the cases will be recognized.
In most cases, it's even more powerful than Multiterm as you can fully understand and control the way the sotware behaves, Multiterm is a black box.

Cheers
GG

[Edited at 2010-03-17 12:03 GMT]


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Bjørnar Magnussen  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:43
English to Norwegian
+ ...
Great insight Mar 17, 2010

Thanks, I have been wondering about this for some time.

I translate a bit from Polish and I always set the "minimum match value" for Multiterm Termbase search to 30 % in order to get hits for all the different cases. It works ok most of the time:)

Regarding MemoQ, it sounds very time-consuming to add a term with all these "pipes"? I am adding terms all the time...

Btw, have you tried to add a glossary here: http://translate.google.com/toolkit/list?hl=pl#translations/active

It would be interesting to see how well Google term recognition works compared to traditional CAT Tools. I will try myself, but haven't got around to it yet...


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:43
French to Polish
+ ...
Multiterm, MemoQ... Mar 17, 2010

Bjørnar Magnussen wrote:

Thanks, I have been wondering about this for some time.

I translate a bit from Polish and I always set the "minimum match value" for Multiterm Termbase search to 30 % in order to get hits for all the different cases. It works ok most of the time:)

With the MemoQ pipes, it will always work.
Of course, except the cases like pies/psie (dog, Nom/Loc sg) but even Multiterm surrends here.
BTW, I often add Locative sg as a different entry, generally with the most frequent preposition, so I receive minisyntagms as hits.

BTW
The advantage of the pipes in MemoQ is you don't receive false positives.
Although the false positives kick my lazy arse and I enter more and more terms, so you may argue it's an inconvenient

Regarding MemoQ, it sounds very time-consuming to add a term with all these "pipes"? I am adding terms all the time...

Me too
But I think a correct analyse will speed up the further translation so it's worth of it.

Nevertheless, the MemoQ term form is not perfect (the default parameters, e.g. case sensitive set as "permissive" are not necessarily the best) but it will be improved shortly, the default override is somewhere on the top of the wishlist.
So why I like MemoQ.
They react.

The Multiterm guys don't fix basic bugs and errors in the design dating from several years, so you can't trust Multiterm as a core tool in a multiplatform environment.
I think mainly about their scandalous default export filters.
Yes, I checked again the CSV default export in SP2.
Two years ago, they promised it should be fixed "shortly", LOL

The way the MT 2009 was implemented was really short-sighted, IMO.
They had an opportunity to cut off the legacy of the iX/7.x crap series and restart some modules from scratch without Java they never handled correctly.
They didn't because it was easier.
So, they still have the slow Java crap and, in addition, all the T/MT 2007/2009 switching and compatibility issues.
A homogenous .Net design in MemoQ simply works with no hassle.
It's simpler, of course but reliable.
And damn fast.

Btw, have you tried to add a glossary here: http://translate.google.com/toolkit/list?hl=pl#translations/active

Never.
I hope I will be never forced to do so

Cheers
GG

[Edited at 2010-03-17 13:09 GMT]


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hhl
Local time: 19:43
English to German
Never any problems Oct 8, 2010

I've been using MultiTerm intensively since Trados Version 3 (long ago), and I've always been happy with it. I've been administrating the EN-DE terminology for a big client, and they imported my exports along with those from other languages into their master multi-language TM base. I tested even Online MT connections (much too slow, as everyone will expect), through TMS.
However, the structure of the workflow/organisation within MT never really convinced me so far. But the integration into Studio 2009 is almost perfect for me.


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ENteCH  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 01:43
English to Chinese
+ ...
I bought Trados Studio 2009 sp2 too Oct 8, 2010

I have been using Trados Studio 2009,my client required me to provide bilingual version of translation, I can not find it in my software, I just provided binlingual version by "print preview", I know it is not good for my client.

Trados Studio can not do right segments, it troubled me a lot because it misaligned segments and therefore misaligned target translation.


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Bjørnar Magnussen  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:43
English to Norwegian
+ ...
Your client probably wants bilingual *.doc Oct 8, 2010

Justin Min wrote:
I have been using Trados Studio 2009,my client required me to provide bilingual version of translation, I can not find it in my software, I just provided binlingual version by "print preview", I know it is not good for my client.


My guess would be that your client wants bilingual *.doc, which is a format supported by Trados 2007, but not by Trados Studio 2009.

The bilingual format in Trados Studio 2009 is *.sdlxliff.


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:43
French to Polish
+ ...
Workarounds... Oct 8, 2010

Bjørnar Magnussen wrote:

Justin Min wrote:
I have been using Trados Studio 2009, my client required me to provide bilingual version of translation, I can not find it in my software, I just provided binlingual version by "print preview", I know it is not good for my client.


My guess would be that your client wants bilingual *.doc, which is a format supported by Trados 2007, but not by Trados Studio 2009.


Yep.
You need to preprocess with T2007.
See my workaround at:
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/176231-switching_halfway_through_a_translation_from_2009_to_2007.html

Nonetheless, this workaround is really imperfect and if your customer often ask for bilingual DOC/RTF, you should switch back to "legacy" Trados or use other CAT software which handle this format.
My preferred ones are DVX and memoQ but the list is longer

Cheers
GG


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