How does SDL Trados Studio 2009 handle badly formatted documents?
Thread poster: xxxMihai Badea

xxxMihai Badea  Identity Verified
Luxembourg
Member (2004)
English to Romanian
+ ...
May 3, 2010

Although I have been owing SDL Trados Studio 2009 for some time (currently have SDL Trados Studio SP2 9.1.1264.0), I haven’t used it for my jobs so far (mainly because I cannot use the MS Word spelling; unfortunately, the Romanian Hunspell dictionary can’t compare with MS Word yet). But now, I thought I would give it a try on a small document.

I was quite surprised to notice that SDL Trados Studio 2009 couldn’t preserve the original font for two of the segments. It changed it from Arial to Times New Roman. Here is one of the segments followed by another segment where the font is correct:



Out of curiosity, I tried to see what happens in MemoQ 4.0.23. The original font was preserved.

But what it is even more interesting is that the original font was also preserved in Trados 2007 (Workbench 8.3.0.863)!



For me, one of the criteria for evaluating a CAT is how it handles badly formatted documents (I receive a lot of them). I was wondering whether other Trados 2009 users had experiences with badly formatted documents. How were the results?


 

Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:39
French to Polish
+ ...
Line breaks... May 3, 2010

Mihai Badea wrote:

For me, one of the criteria for evaluating a CAT is how it handles badly formatted documents (I receive a lot of them). I was wondering whether other Trados 2009 users had experiences with badly formatted documents. How were the results?

Generally, every CAT tool will have problems with badly formatted documents but Trados assumed always a perfect world so it's results are/were generally worse.

For me, one of the crucial tests is the line break test.
Trados is unable to join segments from two different paragraphs (shit happens, even in well formatted documents).

DVX and memoQ do.

Cheers
GG


 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:39
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Show tags May 3, 2010

then you will most probably see, that there are formatting tags in the segment.
Studio does not change font out of the blue, it handles tags, as any other CAT tool.
The only thing is, that STudio pretends not to work with tags - and this is a bad habit for me. So I simpl switched off all the formatting and work as in TagEditor with just tagged text.

Bad formatting will bring you down in any CAT or even just in Word.


 

xxxMihai Badea  Identity Verified
Luxembourg
Member (2004)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Badly formatted documents May 3, 2010

Grzegorz Gryc wrote:

Generally, every CAT tool will have problems with badly formatted documents but Trados assumed always a perfect world so it's results are/were generally worse.

For me, one of the crucial tests is the line break test.
Trados is unable to join segments from two different paragraphs (shit happens, even in well formatted documents).

DVX and memoQ do.

Cheers
GG



Thank you for your comment, Grzegorz.

I know formatting issues can occur when the original document is incorrectly formatted, but I would have expected the results in Trados 2009 to be better than in Trados 2007, not worse!

MemoQ seems a good option and I seriously considered buying it, but they also use the silly online activation, so I preferred to stay with Trados for the time being.


[Edited at 2010-05-03 13:45 GMT]


 

xxxMihai Badea  Identity Verified
Luxembourg
Member (2004)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Showing tags May 3, 2010

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

then you will most probably see, that there are formatting tags in the segment.
Studio does not change font out of the blue, it handles tags, as any other CAT tool.
The only thing is, that STudio pretends not to work with tags - and this is a bad habit for me. So I simpl switched off all the formatting and work as in TagEditor with just tagged text.

Bad formatting will bring you down in any CAT or even just in Word.



Thank you for your answer, Jerzy.

Does showing tags mean pressing the “Full Tag Text” button?



If so, it doesn't seem to make any difference:






[Edited at 2010-05-03 14:29 GMT]


 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:39
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
No, you have to toggle tag view for WYSIWYG environment May 3, 2010

which is the button next (to the right) to the inverted P for showing white spaces.
This button looks like a sheet of paper. If you press it, tags will be shown even in WYSIWYG environment.
You can switch off the complete formatting via Tools - Options - Editor directly at the first tab there.


 

Emma Goldsmith  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:39
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
check the final font May 3, 2010

It's worth checking what the font looks like when you have saved your target file. Sometimes Studio's font looks wrong (as yours does) but it is fine in the end document.

 

xxxMihai Badea  Identity Verified
Luxembourg
Member (2004)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
That did the trick May 3, 2010

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

which is the button next (to the right) to the inverted P for showing white spaces.
This button looks like a sheet of paper. If you press it, tags will be shown even in WYSIWYG environment.
You can switch off the complete formatting via Tools - Options - Editor directly at the first tab there.



You were right, Jerzy. There was a tag (cf font = “Arial”) before “En effet”.

I’ll use this setting from now on. Thank you for the tip!


 

xxxMihai Badea  Identity Verified
Luxembourg
Member (2004)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The same in the final file May 3, 2010

Emma Goldsmith wrote:

It's worth checking what the font looks like when you have saved your target file. Sometimes Studio's font looks wrong (as yours does) but it is fine in the end document.


Thank you for your suggestion, Emma. The font changes in the final file as well.

But, when using the setting that Jerzy suggested, this formatting issue doesn't occur any more.


 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:39
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
The final file MUST have had a different font May 3, 2010

simply because a formatting tag was missing.
This is why I do not like all those "nice" WYSIWYG pretending CAT programs.
When you see tags, you know exactly what is where and what to do about it.


 

Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:39
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Yet another disgruntled user. Just add me to long, long list of people who are sick + tired of SDL. May 3, 2010

Oh no, I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry.

The same old 'font changing problem' (from Workbench + TagEditor) has still not been fixed. I was really hoping to start using Studio soon, and one of my worst problems is apparently still there. I also know the old argument about whether it is a Trados problem or a (Word) Formatting problem (see links below) ... and all I have to say is this: Trados/SDL is supposed to be looking out for me, us, for the translators. However, translators are VERY OFTEN given poorly formatted texts to translate. Therefore, our software designers ought to have given this some thought, and devised solutions for us, not just tell us to basically first go and rewrite/reformat the entire text before being able to even BEGIN using their semi-useless programs.

As I said, I fully understand that it is primarily a question of poorly formatted styles in Microsoft Word documents. But wouldn't it be fantastic if our Extremely Fancy And Expensive Software Studios were able to help us rather than reprimand and punish us for what our source texts look like?

Hmm.

I hope I am mistaken here. Can anyone shed some light on this problem?

Michael

http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/43683-why_does_trados_change_fonts.html

http://glg.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/8133-trados_55_changes_target_segment_font.html

http://deu.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/156799-tageditor_changes_font_to_bold_cannot_reverse.html


 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:39
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
The sory is very different here May 3, 2010

Well, I understand your frustration, but in that very case the reason is different.
Studio is working on a different basis, so font changes here are always (at least as far my knowledge reaches - and this is far, believe me) caused by tags. If a formatting tag is missing, a font change will occur. NO way around that - regardless if you use Studio, or MemoQ or a golden ball. Tag is tag - if it is missing, the formatting it intended will be lost.
While other tools, like Transit or MemoQ (as far I have seen that there) do not use WYSIWYG GUI, Studio will be very user friendly and shows you formatting instead of tags.
If you would try to understand how formatting is working, you would most probably prefer to show tags instead of just formatting, because then you would exactly see where the formatting starts and stops. In an empty segment no formatting is present. So when you start typing, you type in the default font defined in Word - in most cases Times New Roman. If you instead of that copy source to target and start overwriting the font should remain as it was.

Look at this text:
This word is bold.
This is how do you see it.
Inside of the program it looks like that:
This word is <b>bold</b>.

When you start typing before the bold tag <b>, the text will appear in normal font, when you start behind it, the text will be bold. If the tag defines a font style, the same happens. So an empty segment does not contain any tags - thus a "font change" appears. In fact it is no change, it is a simple consequence of how formatting is applied.

[Edited at 2010-05-03 17:23 GMT]


 


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